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So TSLA yesterday announced they made $331M profit for the quarter in their earnings call.
They also announced that they made $397M in selling regulatory credits. Not sure who bought these but GM and FCA have been the buyers in the previous quarters. Not sure about Ford.

So net... they would have lost $$$ without the regulatory credit sales. In fact I'd have to look but I don't think they would have money this year if it were not for these sales (basically all profit).

You would think that the other auto manufacturers get their butts in gear but there just seems to be very little sense of urgency.
 

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So TSLA yesterday announced they made $331M profit for the quarter in their earnings call.
They also announced that they made $397M in selling regulatory credits. Not sure who bought these but GM and FCA have been the buyers in the previous quarters. Not sure about Ford.

So net... they would have lost $$$ without the regulatory credit sales. In fact I'd have to look but I don't think they would have money this year if it were not for these sales (basically all profit).

You would think that the other auto manufacturers get their butts in gear but there just seems to be very little sense of urgency.
It takes years to get a new product to market. Major manufacturers were slow, no doubt, but there are signs of life now.

As for Tesla, they are in growth mode (which is a big part of the reason the stock market loves them so much) rather than pure profit mode. They're investing heavily in their global manufacturing capability and by the time those credits dry up they can easily be profitable without them. As much as I wouldn't buy one now, you have to respect what they've built.
 

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It takes years to get a new product to market. Major manufacturers were slow, no doubt, but there are signs of life now.

As for Tesla, they are in growth mode (which is a big part of the reason the stock market loves them so much) rather than pure profit mode. They're investing heavily in their global manufacturing capability and by the time those credits dry up they can easily be profitable without them. As much as I wouldn't buy one now, you have to respect what they've built.
They been building cars now for over 12 years and still, on the manufacturing of cars, cannot turn a profit.

No other car manufacturer has been able to do what Tesla has: been valued at hundred of billions of dollars with showing a profit.

I think this a game of the "Emperor's new Clothes".
 

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You would think that the other auto manufacturers get their butts in gear but there just seems to be very little sense of urgency.
It's starting to change. Slowly. VERY slowly.

I really think a lot of the established automakers were betting on the "BEVs are a fad" thing coming true.
 

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They been building cars now for over 12 years and still, on the manufacturing of cars, cannot turn a profit.

No other car manufacturer has been able to do what Tesla has: been valued at hundred of billions of dollars with showing a profit.

I think this a game of the "Emperor's new Clothes".
They do turn a profit "on the manufacturing of cars." Their automotive margin is positive even without the regulatory credit sales. Their operating margin is healthy as well.

They lose money because they are spending left and right on growth. If they paused growth and R&D today, they'd be profitable independent of credits.
 

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They do turn a profit "on the manufacturing of cars." Their automotive margin is positive even without the regulatory credit sales. Their operating margin is healthy as well.

They lose money because they are spending left and right on growth. If they paused growth and R&D today, they'd be profitable independent of credits.
Yes, an operational loss like every major player. But not spending is a sign of stagnation, not a good thing at all.

The green credits are a revenue steam Tesla will have for a while, and they don’t all come from the automotive space. I wish there wasn’t a need for the credits to exist. but if they are there, then they do count as revenue since its cash-in-hand.

Ford detractors like to say the company will go bankrupt, pointing out Ford has a large outstanding total debt. What isn’t reported is that a large portion of this debt is used to finance Ford Credit. So technically, that credit load is a good sign that cars are selling.

We can chop finances one hundred ways. Tesla stock worth its price? On the numbers alone, it is not. It is the future potential bolstering it. This can be a good thing, or bad. Look at all those that bought oil futures at such high prices, they are all suffering now and will never recover.

We don’t have a crystal ball. One major recall and Tesla will be in shaky financial waters. They dont have the service network or parts stock to handle hundreds of thousands of repairs, especially since they rely on that same service network to fix fit-and-finish post-sale.

I wish both companies lucrative futures. I just hope they address their respective internal issues.
 

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Yes, an operational loss like every major player. But not spending is a sign of stagnation, not a good thing at all.

The green credits are a revenue steam Tesla will have for a while, and they don’t all come from the automotive space. I wish there wasn’t a need for the credits to exist. but if they are there, then they do count as revenue since its cash-in-hand.

Ford detractors like to say the company will go bankrupt, pointing out Ford has a large outstanding total debt. What isn’t reported is that a large portion of this debt is used to finance Ford Credit. So technically, that credit load is a good sign that cars are selling.

We can chop finances one hundred ways. Tesla stock worth its price? On the numbers alone, it is not. It is the future potential bolstering it. This can be a good thing, or bad. Look at all those that bought oil futures at such high prices, they are all suffering now and will never recover.

We don’t have a crystal ball. One major recall and Tesla will be in shaky financial waters. They dont have the service network or parts stock to handle hundreds of thousands of repairs, especially since they rely on that same service network to fix fit-and-finish post-sale.

I wish both companies lucrative futures. I just hope they address their respective internal issues.
Same - I don't want to see anyone fail. My point is just that yes, Tesla loses money, but not "on the manufacture of vehicles" directly, a statement that implies they sell their cars for less than they cost and then use regulatory credits to make up the shortfall, which isn't correct.

You're absolutely right that so many of the Tesla fanboys that use Ford Credit debt don't really get how much profit Ford Credit generates back to Ford.

I'm definitely not a Tesla shareholder, I've never been much of a roller coaster enthusiast :p
 

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I bet that Tesla can tap into other resources if they end up in a tough spot due to recalls, or whatever it may be.
At one point Amazon, Apple or some other major company wanted to buy them out apparently. I take that as a very positive sign of how the market views them.
 

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$331 mil is net GAAP profit after taxes and a charge for stock issued to Musk per his compensation package. Gross profit is way above the regulatory credits. Their extremely profitable car business 27+% margin (23% w/o credits) supports an aggressive expansion program of new factories, Giga Berlin, Giga Austin, and Giga Shanghai, plus new in house battery manufacturing, along with substantial research and development. Their cash position has improved to over 14 billion (by more than the 5 billion stock sale). Their energy business contributes less as it is in relatively early development. This is not a company in any kind of distress no matter what the haters say by cherry picking numbers.

BTW, it's the market that is speaking on the price of Tesla stock, not pundits.

Watch the videos of the Beta FSD rewrite and go ahead and say you are not amazed. The cars are driving based on what they see, just like you and I, not a LIDAR pre-mapped route.
 

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$331 mil is net GAAP profit after taxes and a charge for stock issued to Musk per his compensation package. Gross profit is way above the regulatory credits. Their extremely profitable car business 27+% margin (23% w/o credits) supports an aggressive expansion program of new factories, Giga Berlin, Giga Austin, and Giga Shanghai, plus new in house battery manufacturing, along with substantial research and development. Their cash position has improved to over 14 billion (by more than the 5 billion stock sale). Their energy business contributes less as it is in relatively early development. This is not a company in any kind of distress no matter what the haters say by cherry picking numbers.

BTW, it's the market that is speaking on the price of Tesla stock, not pundits.

Watch the videos of the Beta FSD rewrite and go ahead and say you are not amazed. The cars are driving based on what they see, just like you and I, not a LIDAR pre-mapped route.
Overall, its clear that Tesla is well positioned.

From the start they have been ahead of the curve and continue to be. Something that's easier to do with a smaller operation and a harder pivot for behemoths.
 

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$331 mil is net GAAP profit after taxes and a charge for stock issued to Musk per his compensation package. Gross profit is way above the regulatory credits. Their extremely profitable car business 27+% margin (23% w/o credits) supports an aggressive expansion program of new factories, Giga Berlin, Giga Austin, and Giga Shanghai, plus new in house battery manufacturing, along with substantial research and development. Their cash position has improved to over 14 billion (by more than the 5 billion stock sale). Their energy business contributes less as it is in relatively early development. This is not a company in any kind of distress no matter what the haters say by cherry picking numbers.

BTW, it's the market that is speaking on the price of Tesla stock, not pundits.

Watch the videos of the Beta FSD rewrite and go ahead and say you are not amazed. The cars are driving based on what they see, just like you and I, not a LIDAR pre-mapped route.
No one is using pre-mapped routes anymore. They do have mapped road systems, which is different. This is more like advanced GPS maps.

LIDAR is superior to camera systems, they are just way too expensive for mass production use at the moment. Radars are a good backup, but they have their own set of issues. What is most important here is the AI behind the sensors. Tesla AI is among the leaders, and is the best available to the general consumer.

If there is one take-away from Tesla’s recent briefings, is that they are not scaling their support network fast enough to match their current and expected volumes. It is the biggest weak-point, way more critical that the build quality stuff. Other than that, the company is doing just fine.
 

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No one is using pre-mapped routes anymore. They do have mapped road systems, which is different. This is more like advanced GPS maps.
Yes, "advanced GPS maps", created with LIDAR mapping of the affected area, before (pre) use. Tesla abandoned LIDAR based mapping as not practical, both by cost and risk of changed circumstances like construction. A further limitation is mapping the entire world is also not practical. Tesla's FSD is designed to work anywhere without precision mapping. Philosophically it is designed to use the same senses that a human driver would use. You can argue that it will never be practical, but the evidence is clear in this just released limited beta test that they are on to something. The videos are astounding.
 

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Also astounding: Lack of focused attention of the backup/safety operator in a system that isn't 100% reliable, leading to death of the human driver. And/or death/injury to other roadway users, who didn't even enroll or consent to the beta self-driving experiment.

This tweet describes an analogous situation where humans will fail to take control when needed. I recommend reading the entire tweet thread that it's a part of... It was great.


imagine your job is to watch a TV screen all day. if, on the screen, you see a pink gorilla, you have to push a button within 3 seconds. this only happens about once a month. how well do you think you would do?
 

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Yes, "advanced GPS maps", created with LIDAR mapping of the affected area, before (pre) use. Tesla abandoned LIDAR based mapping as not practical, both by cost and risk of changed circumstances like construction. A further limitation is mapping the entire world is also not practical. Tesla's FSD is designed to work anywhere without precision mapping. Philosophically it is designed to use the same senses that a human driver would use. You can argue that it will never be practical, but the evidence is clear in this just released limited beta test that they are on to something. The videos are astounding.
Tesla uses enhanced GPS maps in its tech, just like everyone else does. its only a baseline.

The beta videos show performances similar to mobilEye. Like I said, Tesla is the best in consumers hands. But there are others out there as well.

Here is a video of MobileEye from CES 2020 nine months ago. If you have an hour, you will see the entire 45 minute drive in heavy city traffic without driver intervention.
Note: this is a camera and radar system only.
 

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Yes, Mobileye, in agreement with Tesla, uses cameras and radar, but Mobileye requires an initial mapping beyond standard GPS where it is used, and then requires data from users to account for changes. The first car to encounter the change will not have the data. Tesla's goal is to allow safe use anywhere without pre-mapping, encountering situations not seen before.

BTW, not too much attention has been given to Musk's statement that other companies WILL catch up in autonomous driving... ...and (for the shareholders) Tesla's strength will be its manufacturing. He fully understands that programming talent is not exclusive to any company.
 
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