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Someone please add clarity to this:

If the AWD extended range battery Mach-E has a range of 270 miles, is this from 100% charge to 0% charge or is it from 80% charge down to 20% remaining? If the former, is the real range 162 miles (60% x 270)?
 

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Someone please add clarity to this:

If the AWD extended range battery Mach-E has a range of 270 miles, is this from 100% charge to 0% charge or is it from 80% charge down to 20% remaining? If the former, is the real range 162 miles (60% x 270)?
I am not sure, but I believe the range is with the buffer.

I had read that the buffer, low and high end combined, is closer to 10/15% and not 40%.

One of the ways that Tesla keeps increasing the range of existing cars is through OTA updates that modify the buffer. I think their total buffer is now around 5 to 8%.

Others I am sure will post more accurate information.

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The 270 expected range comes from the 88 kWh of battery Ford makes accessible to you. (Ev-database says they expect real-world range to be 268 miles).

The other 11 kWh of the 99 kWh pack (~11%) are restricted from your use by the battery management system (BMS). Ford may make some of this available in the future as they get more real-world data back.

A question i have is: Being there is 11% reserved, does this reduce the usual 20% charge floor to 10%? My biggest reason for wanting to get my hands on the user manual is to get Ford’s charging recommendations.

as for range anxiety, I’m going to throw some food for thought out there. If I had a Ford Edge with a 18.5 gallon gas tank, it would go for 425 miles if I somehow managed to match the EPA combined 23 MPG rating. I never go to empty. So assuming I leave at least a 1/4 tank before refueling, my theoretical range would be 319 miles. I also only pay cash for gas, so i usually add $20 gas at a time (10 gallons at my current gas prices). So right now my range between refueling is actually 230 miles (55% capacity). This doesn’t take into consideration environmental impacts on MPG.

In my book when it comes to refueling, the only real difference between BEV vehicles with a decent range and an ICE vehicle is the ‘refueling’ speed.
 

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Someone please add clarity to this:

If the AWD extended range battery Mach-E has a range of 270 miles, is this from 100% charge to 0% charge or is it from 80% charge down to 20% remaining? If the former, is the real range 162 miles (60% x 270)?
Yes, that is from charging to what the car calls 100% down to what the car calls 0%. There is a buffer at the top and bottom ends of the battery, which is why the physical battery is 99kwh but Ford reports it as 88 kwh. The car will never let you drain the battery to absolute 0 because that seriously damages a Li-ion battery, nor truly charge it to 99kwh full because doing so on a regular basis also damages the battery.

For example, when the car reads 100% it probably is holding 93kwh, and when it reads 0% it will likely still contain 5kwh. To protect the battery from damage it won't let you directly charge it or drain it beyond those limits. However, if you leave Li-ion sitting for a long time it will discharge, so you never want to leave it sitting at that low of a level for a prolonged period.

So yes, you only get 270mi range if you take it up to what it reports as 100% and drain it down to what it reports as 0%.
 

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Yes, that is from charging to what the car calls 100% down to what the car calls 0%. There is a buffer at the top and bottom ends of the battery, which is why the physical battery is 99kwh but Ford reports it as 88 kwh. The car will never let you drain the battery to absolute 0 because that seriously damages a Li-ion battery, nor truly charge it to 99kwh full because doing so on a regular basis also damages the battery.

For example, when the car reads 100% it probably is holding 93kwh, and when it reads 0% it will likely still contain 5kwh. To protect the battery from damage it won't let you directly charge it or drain it beyond those limits. However, if you leave Li-ion sitting for a long time it will discharge, so you never want to leave it sitting at that low of a level for a prolonged period.

So yes, you only get 270mi range if you take it up to what it reports as 100% and drain it down to what it reports as 0%.
Also, because Ford has the built in protections at the top and bottom, on an occasional basis it is fine to charge it to the reported 100% and drain it down 0%, but just like with an ICE you don't want to get stranded before reaching a refueling station. As long as you don't do that very often the battery will be fine. I too am curious to see Ford's recommendations for daily charging and usage; I suspect they will tell you to keep it between 10% and 90% on an ongoing basis with the 1%-100% saved for the occasional road trip or "emergency".
 

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Yes, that is from charging to what the car calls 100% down to what the car calls 0%. There is a buffer at the top and bottom ends of the battery, which is why the physical battery is 99kwh but Ford reports it as 88 kwh. The car will never let you drain the battery to absolute 0 because that seriously damages a Li-ion battery, nor truly charge it to 99kwh full because doing so on a regular basis also damages the battery.

For example, when the car reads 100% it probably is holding 93kwh, and when it reads 0% it will likely still contain 5kwh. To protect the battery from damage it won't let you directly charge it or drain it beyond those limits. However, if you leave Li-ion sitting for a long time it will discharge, so you never want to leave it sitting at that low of a level for a prolonged period.

So yes, you only get 270mi range if you take it up to what it reports as 100% and drain it down to what it reports as 0%.
I believe the 11% buffer is all at the remaining charge level.

The actual 99 kWh battery rating accounts for the protection from an over-charge. LG already works that into the cell ratings. When the charge reaches the cell rating, the BMS stops charging.
 

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Yes, that is from charging to what the car calls 100% down to what the car calls 0%. There is a buffer at the top and bottom ends of the battery, which is why the physical battery is 99kwh but Ford reports it as 88 kwh. The car will never let you drain the battery to absolute 0 because that seriously damages a Li-ion battery, nor truly charge it to 99kwh full because doing so on a regular basis also damages the battery.

For example, when the car reads 100% it probably is holding 93kwh, and when it reads 0% it will likely still contain 5kwh. To protect the battery from damage it won't let you directly charge it or drain it beyond those limits. However, if you leave Li-ion sitting for a long time it will discharge, so you never want to leave it sitting at that low of a level for a prolonged period.

So yes, you only get 270mi range if you take it up to what it reports as 100% and drain it down to what it reports as 0%.
So I am driving a BMW 328d with a 15 gal fuel tank. We average anywhere from 42 - 48 mpg on this vehicle while on the highway, including long road trips. We have on occassion gone 700 miles on one tank full when we knew where the next diesel pump was.
 

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as for range anxiety, I’m going to throw some food for thought out there. If I had a Ford Edge with a 18.5 gallon gas tank, it would go for 425 miles if I somehow managed to match the EPA combined 23 MPG rating. I never go to empty. So assuming I leave at least a 1/4 tank before refueling, my theoretical range would be 319 miles. I also only pay cash for gas, so i usually add $20 gas at a time (10 gallons at my current gas prices). So right now my range between refueling is actually 230 miles (55% capacity). This doesn’t take into consideration environmental impacts on MPG.

In my book when it comes to refueling, the only real difference between BEV vehicles with a decent range and an ICE vehicle is the ‘refueling’ speed.
I do own a Ford Edge:

  • I use a credit card and fill up. 15 gallons, at 23 mpg, will give me an additional range of 345 miles. The fill up will take 5 minutes. Under best of circumstances 5 minutes at super charger will give you at most 35 miles or range.
  • Unless I am on the Northway in the Adirondacks there is a gas station ever 20 to 30 miles. In an EV it may be every 50 miles and not every charging station is a supercharger.
  • The 23 mpg on the open road in a Ford Edge is realistic whether in the winter or the summer. At 70/75 mph I always get more than 23 mpg or better.
  • The range of MME 270 in reality is the maximum range. In the real world at speed in the winter expect that range to drop to under 200 miles. In the summer with AC on expect that range to drop to 230 miles
I see both time of recharging and range as issues - not just the time it takes to charge.

I can give you a very specific example:

From my home to Ludlow Vermont is 254 miles - I make the trip 10 to 12 times a year for skiing and have been doing so for over 20 years so I know the mileage.

I fill up my Mercedes, 21 gallons and I get 31 mpg at 70 miles per hour. My first stop is at the rest stop in Middletown CT for five minutes, 100 miles 1 1/2 hours. My second stop is the rest stop at Vermont border, another 105 miles, 1 1/2 hours for 5 minutes. I arrive in Ludlow with more than a half a tank of gas and it has taken me 4 hours and 15/20 minutes.

Now I make the same trip with the MME:

  • I make the same stop at Middletown.
  • I make a second stop at Springfield Mass 146 miles. Because it is winter I have used 80% of the charge. I must now fully charge the battery, 60 minutes.
  • I now must stop again at Brattelboro, VT. 50 miles to once again fully charge the battery, as there are no super charging stations between Brattleboro, VT and Ludow, VT. That 50 miles has used slightly less than 1/3 of the battery. The charge will take another 20 minutes.
I could reverse and only stop for 20 minutes in Springfield, but then I would to stop for 60 minutes in Brattleboro.

Either way using the MME I have turned a 4 hour 15/20 minute trip in an Ice to a 6 hour trip in the MME.

This is for only a 250 mile trip. When the trip is longer, time spent recharging will be greater.

That is why I am keeping my Ford Edge for long trips. The MME is just not practical.

BTW, with the Model Y and the 50 miles of extra range, I could make it to Brattleboro, 200 miles. I would only need 1/3 charge, 20 minutes as Tesla does have charging stations in Ludlow - 4 in fact. They are located at the ski slope and you can charge your car while you are skiing!

So the same trip with a Model Y would be 1 hour shorter than the MME.



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Let's see, when the ICE motor car replaced the horse there were few petrol stations bad roads and mechanical glitches. How many on the forum ride a horse to work or on holiday? I will not be able to make my daughter's in Utah with out a charge ( I got the RWD/ER), So what, in the grand scheme of things is an extra 6 hours a year hanging out at a charging location, which will in all probability go a long way to keeping me out of trouble. I once made the drive from Long Island, NY to San Diego, CA in 2.5 days. It then took me half again that long to recuperate and at the time I was in my 20s. I truly understand the range issue, that's why I bought a RWD. However, as I have stated in other posts 99% of my driving will well be in the range of an MM E on a home charge. I bought a PHEV to make the transition to a BEV and I'm looking forward to being part of 'the future' of automotive technology. For me and only me I won't buy a vehicle with paint issues, leaks, roofs flying off, cabin noise no instrument panel or doors flooding to save a charging stop. I do however support the choice of purchasing/leasing ones vehicle of choice because I'm a loyal libertarian who believes that Adults have the right to do what they want as long as it doesn't result in an increase in my taxes to pay for it. Happy Thanksgiving🦚That's either a tree or a turkey , I don't have my glasses on
 

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I believe the 11% buffer is all at the remaining charge level.

The actual 99 kWh battery rating accounts for the protection from an over-charge. LG already works that into the cell ratings. When the charge reaches the cell rating, the BMS stops charging.
Like @timbop, I recall the buffer is applied at both ends.
 

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Personally, for long trips (over 500 miles), we can use my wife’s car. Its not that frequent we do, though.

As a range example, I mapped out from Freeport, LI (picked because of distance) to Ludlow, VT, 253 miles on ABRP. If I leave with 100% charge it says no stops. I would make at least one stop somewhere on the route and grab a 30 minute charge to be safe.

This is only good if there is destination charging in Ludlow.

And this is all speculation anyway. we don’t know what the EPA and real-world test numbers are yet.
 

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Like @timbop, I recall the buffer is applied at both ends.
That would mean about a 5% energy reserve, and 5% unused battery. The unused battery is overkill because of the LG cell design. The cell-design is what led me to believe it was a 10% energy reserve.
 

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Hi. I am right beside you in Merrick. I am sure I can make it to Freeport from my garage without any stops. ;) MME4X Premium Space White.
 

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Personally, for long trips (over 500 miles), we can use my wife’s car. Its not that frequent we do, though.

As a range example, I mapped out from Freeport, LI (picked because of distance) to Ludlow, VT, 253 miles on ABRP. If I leave with 100% charge it says no stops. I would make at least one stop somewhere on the route and grab a 30 minute charge to be safe.

This is only good if there is destination charging in Ludlow.

And this is all speculation anyway. we don’t know what the EPA and real-world test numbers are yet.
Again the 270 miles is the maximum range for the FE - LR AWD: It is calculated in both city and highway. The city driving is always higher because of brake regeneration.

At speeds (70 to 75 mph) the 270 drops to 240, without brake regeneration another 20 to 220 and with heat on in the winter to under 200 to 180.

That 180 is once again the maximum and with a 20 mile reserve your are down to 160.

Without "nit picking" Google maps shows the distance from Freeport LI to Ludlow to be 258 miles and 250 from my home. My ski house is in the center of town which accounts for the extra 4 miles.

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Again the 270 miles is the maximum range for the FE - LR AWD: It is calculated in both city and highway. The city driving is always higher because of brake regeneration.

At speeds (70 to 75 mph) the 270 drops to 240, without brake regeneration another 20 to 220 and with heat on in the winter to under 200 to 180.

That 180 is once again the maximum and with a 20 mile reserve your are down to 160.

Without "nit picking" Google maps shows the distance from Freeport LI to Ludlow to be 258 miles and 250 from my home. My ski house is in the center of town which accounts for the extra 4 miles.

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My point is that 2 hours of charge stops seems a bt extreme. But all calculations we do in these forums are SWAGs anyway.

One nice feature of the MMe’s built-in navigation is that it will take into account everything about the trip (terrain, weather, traffic, and the driver) when mapping a route. I know I heard Darren Palmer say this feature may be released as an OTA shortly after the MMe goes on-sale. If it works as advertised, it will be a BEV driver’s best friend.
 

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My point is that 2 hours of charge stops seems a bt extreme. But all calculations we do in these forums are SWAGs anyway.
I agree.

See my post #8 where I said:

"Either way using the MME I have turned a 4 hour 15/20 minute trip in an Ice to a 6 hour trip in the MME."
I then went on to say that the same trip with a Model Y would be much shorter because of the:

  • 50 miles additional range​
  • Charging stations in Ludlow​

"BTW, with the Model Y and the 50 miles of extra range, I could make it to Brattleboro, 200 miles. I would only need 1/3 charge, 20 minutes as Tesla does have charging stations in Ludlow - 4 in fact. They are located at the ski slope and you can charge your car while you are skiing!

So the same trip with a Model Y would be 1 hour shorter than the MME. "

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What do you mean by


Why no brake regeneration?
In city traffic there is stop and go: this is brake regeneration which charges the battery.

On long distance trips the brakes are used, in miles driven, far less than in the city.

That is why on EV's the city range is always higher than the highway range.

And do not forget, like EPA mpg on an ICE, the range on an EV is calculated at 50 mph. As you go faster both the mpg on an ICE and the range on an EV go down.

The decrease in range on the highway is a combination of:

  • Lack of regenerative braking
  • speed

Hope this clarifies.

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In city traffic there is stop and go: this is brake regeneration which charges the battery.

On long distance trips the brakes are used, in miles driven, far less than in the city.

That is why on EV's the city range is always higher than the highway range.

And do not forget, like EPA mpg on an ICE, the range on an EV is calculated at 50 mph. As you go faster both the mpg on an ICE and the range on an EV go down.

The decrease in range on the highway is a combination of:

  • Lack of regenerative braking
  • speed

Hope this clarifies.

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Gotcha. However, I think the 70 mph highway reduction generally includes the limited regeneration. We'll know more when we start real world testing.
 

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Gotcha. However, I think the 70 mph highway reduction generally includes the limited regeneration. We'll know more when we start real world testing.
I have gone to the Tesla "stores". They have a big white board where you can put in different parameters and see how that effects range:

When you use that board you find the following:

  • Highway range is less than stop and go
  • Highway range decreases with speed
  • Highway range decreases dramatically as it gets colder
When I originally did this the Model S range was slightly below a 300 mile range - similar to the expected range of the MME.

I was shocked to see how speed and cold in the winter affected the Model S range: I was also shocked at the time to recharge. The lack of range in the winter and the charging times are the main reasons I did not get the Model S. Remember 4 years ago the Tesla charging infrastructure is not what it is today.

In fact the present MME charging infrastructure is quite similar to where Tesla was 4 years ago. All the problems the Model S had driving long distances in the winter 4 years ago are similar to what the MME faces today.

That is why I posted that for long trips I intend to use my wife's Ford Edge Sport!
 
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