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that's actually an issue with any new car. Certainly the technology adds another layer, but a 3 year warranty and the lemon law are there to protect from a colossal failure.
and furthermore to keep things in perspective, while incredibly annoying when it's 'your vehicle', what we read about on this forum has been a handful of MMe's out of the 20+thousand or so built and delivered to date.
Along the same lines, I got that Service Soon notice and the little wrench icon today along with a Ford Pass notification POWERTRAIN MALFUNCTION/REDUCED POWER.
I brought it into my dealer for a "calibration recall" last Feb. for the same notification. This time after it sat for a few minutes and I restarted it the small screen notice went away. It should be noted that while the notice was on the screen the vehicle ran fine and is still running as usual. TBC
 

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and furthermore to keep things in perspective, while incredibly annoying when it's 'your vehicle', what we read about on this forum has been a handful of MMe's out of the 20+thousand or so built and delivered to date.
Along the same lines, I got that Service Soon notice and the little wrench icon today along with a Ford Pass notification POWERTRAIN MALFUNCTION/REDUCED POWER.
I brought it into my dealer for a "calibration recall" last Feb. for the same notification. This time after it sat for a few minutes and I restarted it the small screen notice went away. It should be noted that while the notice was on the screen the vehicle ran fine and is still running as usual. TBC
I had same issue for about 2 hrs. Drove to my Ford dealer (only a mile from my house) and they couldn’t get me in for a couple of weeks. By the time I left the light was off. When dealer pulled up my vin, he said many issues showing? I said has he ever seen this and he said no. But lots of growing pains here. I guess when you have something new it’s going to happen? Car was fine whole time warning was on then started it at dealer and it was gone. Haven’t seen it since.
 

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The 2 biggest issues for me are
1: Paak is most of the time not working.
And only one key
2: dealers are worthless for this car. The first question I get is! Did you by the car from us. Then i tell them that i had one on order from you for six month. And that I then located the one I have.
Then they will not help us.
This was one of the main reasons I bought the car. I hope that ford will fix this.
 

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The 2 biggest issues for me are
1: Paak is most of the time not working.
And only one key
2: dealers are worthless for this car. The first question I get is! Did you by the car from us. Then i tell them that i had one on order from you for six month. And that I then located the one I have.
Then they will not help us.
This was one of the main reasons I bought the car. I hope that ford will fix this.
One of the biggest problems with Tesla is the lack of dealer network to service your car and lack of parts.
 

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The 2 biggest issues for me are
1: Paak is most of the time not working.
And only one key
2: dealers are worthless for this car. The first question I get is! Did you by the car from us. Then i tell them that i had one on order from you for six month. And that I then located the one I have.
Then they will not help us.
This was one of the main reasons I bought the car. I hope that ford will fix this.
The Ford dealers have to start realizing that while Ford company designed the software, the dealers need to start showing some interest in helping the customer work through some of the software issues or they are going to lose business in the next decade or two. It is still hard for me to believe that PAAK is mostly trouble free for some and seldom works for others. Do we not all have the same software? Or is part of the problem on the phone side and the car always gets the blame?

I let my visiting daughter test drive my Mach E yesterday and forgot to open FP app before we started the drive. PAAK worked just fine without the app open. I have NEVER had the No Key Detected message ever when using only PAAK and not the fob.
 

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Discussion Starter · #186 ·
The 2 biggest issues for me are
1: Paak is most of the time not working.
And only one key
2: dealers are worthless for this car. The first question I get is! Did you by the car from us. Then i tell them that i had one on order from you for six month. And that I then located the one I have.
Then they will not help us.
This was one of the main reasons I bought the car. I hope that ford will fix this.
I take my car to a dealer that I did not purchase the car from (they wouldn't give me the X-Plan) and they are glad to work on it. Theoretically, you should be able to get service from any Ford dealer. Buy an additional FOB and that will help if PAAK doesn't work.
 

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The Ford dealers have to start realizing that while Ford company designed the software, the dealers need to start showing some interest in helping the customer work through some of the software issues or they are going to lose business in the next decade or two. It is still hard for me to believe that PAAK is mostly trouble free for some and seldom works for others. Do we not all have the same software? Or is part of the problem on the phone side and the car always gets the blame?

I let my visiting daughter test drive my Mach E yesterday and forgot to open FP app before we started the drive. PAAK worked just fine without the app open. I have NEVER had the No Key Detected message ever when using only PAAK and not the fob.
Well if the dealers would be willing to help that would help to answer these questions!!
I the mean time most people payed 56 thousand dollars for something that does not work and no help from the dealers.
This is not ok for me.
No second key is offered.
And it was one if the main reasons why I bought the car.
 

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No second key is offered.
And it was one if the main reasons why I bought the car.
For Ford
For Ford, that would be like admitting failure. I wonder if Darren Palmer or Bill Ford ever had a PAAK problem when they were driving the Mach E?
 

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For Ford
For Ford, that would be like admitting failure. I wonder if Darren Palmer or Bill Ford ever had a PAAK problem when they were driving the Mach E?
They simply a problem with the dealer not being on board or not being trained for the mach e.
At the end for me as a customer it's udderly disappointing.
I payed to much for the car to be treated like this.
 

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They simply a problem with the dealer not being on board or not being trained for the mach e.
At the end for me as a customer it's udderly disappointing.
I payed to much for the car to be treated like this.
also have to keep in mind only 2100 ford dealers have the EV certification for sales / service. That said, The dealer I bought my car from only ordered three counting the demo, and haven't ordered anymore, which means they'll so seldom see one, that the certfified tech(s) won't remember the training. That's a real concern.
 

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They simply a problem with the dealer not being on board or not being trained for the mach e.
At the end for me as a customer it's udderly disappointing.
I payed to much for the car to be treated like this.
I wonder if they can‘t fix my PAAK issues does the lemon law come into play? I mean 52k for the car doesn’t bother me. It is not a luxury car, but I am paying for engineering and technology. Whether it’s 29k or 52k it should work as it’s supposed to.
 

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I wonder if they can‘t fix my PAAK issues does the lemon law come into play? I mean 52k for the car doesn’t bother me. It is not a luxury car, but I am paying for engineering and technology. Whether it’s 29k or 52k it should work as it’s supposed to.
Each State has different criteria for claiming a vehicle is a "lemon". You might consider looking into your State's requirements if you're serious about returning the MMe due to being unable to operate your vehicle with your phone.
 

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Each State has different criteria for claiming a vehicle is a "lemon". You might consider looking into your State's requirements if you're serious about returning the MMe due to being unable to operate your vehicle with your phone.
Yes, I know. I was talking a little tongue and cheek. I love the car and I most likely wouldn’t do that even if I could. But, I wonder if Ford will have a problem like that? I did say in another post about PAAK issues that Tesla had them initially also. But it was so new nobody cared and we certainly didn’t hear much about it then.
 

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I wonder if they can‘t fix my PAAK issues does the lemon law come into play? I mean 52k for the car doesn’t bother me. It is not a luxury car, but I am paying for engineering and technology. Whether it’s 29k or 52k it should work as it’s supposed to.
So if the lemon law did apply for you and you get your money back, what would you buy and would it be available. New car inventories are very low. Case in point. Three years ago I helped a friend look at and buy a new Lexus RX-350. As I recall the combined RX-350 inventories on the two area Lexus dealers in this area (metro area of 4 million) was between 250 and 300 RX-350's. This is by far the largest volume model of Lexus. Today, I looked at the combined inventory and it was 16. This included all RX models including hybrids. The point is that all new car inventories are low which might limit your choices. My Ford dealer only has little more than a handful of new cars/suv's available. They do have 15 F-150 pickups however.
 

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So if the lemon law did apply for you and you get your money back, what would you buy and would it be available. New car inventories are very low. Case in point. Three years ago I helped a friend look at and buy a new Lexus RX-350. As I recall the combined RX-350 inventories on the two area Lexus dealers in this area (metro area of 4 million) was between 250 and 300 RX-350's. This is by far the largest volume model of Lexus. Today, I looked at the combined inventory and it was 16. This included all RX models including hybrids. The point is that all new car inventories are low which might limit your choices. My Ford dealer only has little more than a handful of new cars/suv's available. They do have 15 F-150 pickups however.
Oh, I know it’s crazy. I have 3 cars so I didn’t need the MME, I wanted it. I was going to buy a Tesla Model Y but they aren’t very nice looking in my opinion? I have a Cybertruck on order also. I figured when that comes out in a year or so I’ll get rid of 2 vehicles and have 2 EV’s.
 

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and furthermore to keep things in perspective, while incredibly annoying when it's 'your vehicle', what we read about on this forum has been a handful of MMe's out of the 20+thousand or so built and delivered to date.
Along the same lines, I got that Service Soon notice and the little wrench icon today along with a Ford Pass notification POWERTRAIN MALFUNCTION/REDUCED POWER.
I brought it into my dealer for a "calibration recall" last Feb. for the same notification. This time after it sat for a few minutes and I restarted it the small screen notice went away. It should be noted that while the notice was on the screen the vehicle ran fine and is still running as usual. TBC
When mine said "take me to the dealer" it meant it. 61 days, one battery, one circuit board and one plastic connector later I got it back. Dealer has one tech that has been to "Mach-e" school and she could not fix it alone. Detroit sent an engineer out, twice, to help her. All fixed now, love the car, but am keeping my Shelby GTH in reserve. New technology is also uncharted territory for the repairs folks and there will be learning pains. Remember our first PC's? And how quirky they could be? And few could repair them? And issues with printers communicating with the PC? Serial Cables? Buss cables? Now all plug and play. I'm to old for them to iron out all the bugs anyway! I want to play now! As someone else said in their post; Carpe Diem!
 

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I wonder if they can‘t fix my PAAK issues does the lemon law come into play? I mean 52k for the car doesn’t bother me. It is not a luxury car, but I am paying for engineering and technology. Whether it’s 29k or 52k it should work as it’s supposed to.
Generally, if you have the same issue 3 or more times for which you need to go to the dealer, it qualifies under the lemon law. In Ohio it's 3 of the same thing, I believe 8 different things, and maybe 1 super major life threatening thing. I currently have a lemon law suit pending in court against GM for my 2021 Yukon AT4. It was in the dealership 3 times in the first 4 months for the same software issue.
 

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So if the lemon law did apply for you and you get your money back, what would you buy and would it be available. New car inventories are very low. Case in point. Three years ago I helped a friend look at and buy a new Lexus RX-350. As I recall the combined RX-350 inventories on the two area Lexus dealers in this area (metro area of 4 million) was between 250 and 300 RX-350's. This is by far the largest volume model of Lexus. Today, I looked at the combined inventory and it was 16. This included all RX models including hybrids. The point is that all new car inventories are low which might limit your choices. My Ford dealer only has little more than a handful of new cars/suv's available. They do have 15 F-150 pickups however.
They don't always take the car back - basically you file your claim and the mftr makes you an offer. Sometimes it's just a brand new car, sometimes it's a full refund, sometimes it's a cash offer. Frankly, I'm hoping for a new car or a cash offer, rather than a full refund simply because there really aren't a lot of new cars out there.
 

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Generally, if you have the same issue 3 or more times for which you need to go to the dealer, it qualifies under the lemon law. In Ohio it's 3 of the same thing, I believe 8 different things, and maybe 1 super major life threatening thing. I currently have a lemon law suit pending in court against GM for my 2021 Yukon AT4. It was in the dealership 3 times in the first 4 months for the same software issue.
If the car is a safety issue or does not drive -- those are easy lemon law cases (not fixable after 3 tries). Software glitch that is like paak is not without a workaround. If your pc had a bug in windows, a program you bought -- name 1 company that refunds you the amount. Some offer 30 day money back guarantees but most are for feature and not bug related items. If ford has a mechanical issue and it is not fixable -- lemon law in my opinion. If it is a buggy software glitch -- errs more to reputation and why early models all experience software glitches.. Compared to the Aviator, Explorer mechanical issues, the mache seems to be battery failure on early early prod dated and software like paak and 12v battery depletion...
 

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If the car is a safety issue or does not drive -- those are easy lemon law cases (not fixable after 3 tries). Software glitch that is like paak is not without a workaround. If your pc had a bug in windows, a program you bought -- name 1 company that refunds you the amount. Some offer 30 day money back guarantees but most are for feature and not bug related items. If ford has a mechanical issue and it is not fixable -- lemon law in my opinion. If it is a buggy software glitch -- errs more to reputation and why early models all experience software glitches.. Compared to the Aviator, Explorer mechanical issues, the mache seems to be battery failure on early early prod dated and software like paak and 12v battery depletion...
I don't know that the Lemon Laws have been updated to reflect new cars' reliance on software; it hasn't in Ohio. To your point, manufacturers will undoubtably lobby to update the laws as it will only continue to be a bigger issue in new cars. But as it stands now, a "problem," as defined in Ohio's Lemon Law, does not need to make the car inherently unsafe or undriveable to apply.

Three or more attempts been made to repair one problem and then the problem either continues to exist or occurs again
The vehicle been in the shop for a cumulative total of 30 days or more during its first year or 18,000 miles, whichever occurs first
Eight or more attempts been made to fix different problems
One unsuccessful attempt been made to fix a problem that could cause death or serious injury

Ford (or in my current case, GMC) will most certainly make the argument you put forth in an attempt to lessen the damages owed. But until the laws reflect the software reality of new cars, I don't know how the courts are going to interpret the law. Should be interesting....
 
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