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Discussion Starter #3
More pictures of the BMX iX from Green Car Reports. Kudos on the interior design. BMW iX Revealed
Thanks for the post!

It will be interesting to see where the price points are.

Presently a fully equipped X5, has a MSRP of $62,900 before incentives and dealer discounting.

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That's not a BMW that's the Subaru Tribeca.... Oh wait that is the new BMW that's even uglier than the now cancelled Subaru Tribeca. ;)
 

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I heard it could sell for $70k to start. A decent margin above the BMW X5 and the Mach-E.
Still not convinced. Would anyone here consider it?

A revision to the front end design like this could bring me a bit closer to liking it...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I heard it could sell for $70k to start. A decent margin above the BMW X5 and the Mach-E.
Still not convinced. Would anyone here consider it?

A revision to the front end design like this could bring me a bit closer to liking it...
The Audi etron, starting at $72,000 and going over $80,000 for a Prestige model with a rang of only 210 miles was and continues to be a complete dud. Despite discounting of $20,000 they are still sitting on dealers lots.

If we acknowledge that Tesla is the undisputed leader in EV's, then every other car will be compared to it.

Will a $75,000 plus BME iX with a range of 300 miles sell. Probably yes. Will it sell in volume, probably not.

If BMW wants to go all electric then they will have to produce products with a more modest MSRP.

The biggest seller for BMW is the X3 with an average MSRP under $50,000 before incentives and dealer discounts.

Ditto for Audi with their Q5 and Mercedes with their GLC.

Just my $.02.
 

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The Audi etron, starting at $72,000 and going over $80,000 for a Prestige model with a rang of only 210 miles was and continues to be a complete dud. Despite discounting of $20,000 they are still sitting on dealers lots.

If we acknowledge that Tesla is the undisputed leader in EV's, then every other car will be compared to it.

Will a $75,000 plus BME iX with a range of 300 miles sell. Probably yes. Will it sell in volume, probably not.

If BMW wants to go all electric then they will have to produce products with a more modest MSRP.

The biggest seller for BMW is the X3 with an average MSRP under $50,000 before incentives and dealer discounts.

Ditto for Audi with their Q5 and Mercedes with their GLC.

Just my $.02.
The only two new vehicles on the market, other than Tesla, attempting at selling any sort of volume in the US are the VW ID.4 and then the Mustang Mach-E. Both are on-track to outsell every other non-Tesla BEV in the US market in 2021.

All the other players are going for the higher-profit luxury level trims. That audience is shrinking.

The other mass-consumer producers, (Honda, Toyota, Nissan, GM, FCA) are dragging their feet. Until we have the EV equivalent of a Camry, CRV, etc, you are going to see more higher priced, lower-volume BEVs come to market.

I have a feeling it will only be Tesla, Ford, and VW that drop affordable EVs in the US marketplace in the not-so-distant future. Everyone else seems to focus only on the EU and China.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
2022 BMW iX, starting at $69,995*

*$89,995 with battery
Are you saying that $69,995 there is no battery? That is like buying an ICE without an engine!

Can you post link to the prices?

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I think they (BMW, Audi, etc.) are afraid to take the big step and offer a BEV that will cannibalize sales from their bread and butter ICE models. They'll either keep the price high or cripple them a bit in range or performance. I'm curious to see what Audi does with the Q4 Etron, with the VAG MEB platform it will likely be weak performance and range. There is an awful lot of capital invested in ICE engines and cars. Lets see what happens with Ford if the Mach E demand exceeds their production plans at the possible expense of their ICE SUVs. Will they step up production big time and lower the price a bit?
 

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I think they (BMW, Audi, etc.) are afraid to take the big step and offer a BEV that will cannibalize sales from their bread and butter ICE models. They'll either keep the price high or cripple them a bit in range or performance. I'm curious to see what Audi does with the Q4 Etron, with the VAG MEB platform it will likely be weak performance and range. There is an awful lot of capital invested in ICE engines and cars. Lets see what happens with Ford if the Mach E demand exceeds their production plans at the possible expense of their ICE SUVs. Will they step up production big time and lower the price a bit?
I think the Mustang Mach-E prices won’t change much. More likely, features and options will increase to keep it where it is.

Ford has a US market EV planned, targeting a common car price-point. I don’t think this is the MEB-based EU model, but another altogether. They were very vague about it all on the last investors call.
 
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Tesla has been eating BMWs lunch the last few years. If BMW, Audi and the other luxury auto makers don't start making more affordable BEVs, their market share will continue to fall. Tesla has stealthily been adding dual pane glass, revamped interiors and other quality changes in the last few months without adding to the sticker price. As the gap between luxury and mid range BEVs gets smaller, less people will look to legacy luxury auto makers. If these companies don't get realistic, they will slowly die.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I think they (BMW, Audi, etc.) are afraid to take the big step and offer a BEV that will cannibalize sales from their bread and butter ICE models. They'll either keep the price high or cripple them a bit in range or performance. I'm curious to see what Audi does with the Q4 Etron, with the VAG MEB platform it will likely be weak performance and range. There is an awful lot of capital invested in ICE engines and cars. Lets see what happens with Ford if the Mach E demand exceeds their production plans at the possible expense of their ICE SUVs. Will they step up production big time and lower the price a bit?
Not to be a contrarian:

Last year, Mercedes announced that they have ceased to develop any future ICE:

see: Daimler stops development of internal combustion engines: Complete focus on EVs

Similarly BMW is cutting back on production of ICE:

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And VW is moving towards all electric:

see: Volkswagen Ends Production Of ICE Cars At Zwickau And Goes Electric

On the other hand Audi has taken an opposite tack:

see: Audi CEO backs away from all-EV future for company.

IMO, the EU CO emissions standards makes the development of future ICE impossible.

So far I have not heard of anyone who wants a MME not being able to get one so I do not know what you mean by:

"Lets see what happens with Ford if the Mach E demand exceeds their production plans at the possible expense of their ICE SUVs."

I have posted the barrier that EV's must overcome is:

  • Range
  • Price
The MME has the range, but not the price to become mainstream.

The new VW Id4 has range + price, but is certainly not "upscale".

Just my $.02!


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"Lets see what happens with Ford if the Mach E demand exceeds their production plans at the possible expense of their ICE SUVs."

In 2022 and later, is Ford going to ramp up production of the Mach E and others on the platform so that there are enough of them to sit on dealer lots in significant numbers side by side with their ICE SUVs and have salesmen enthusiastically say take a test drive and compare? OR, are they going to keep this somewhat confusing hybrid of online sale/dealer delivery system with more limited numbers, keeping the dealer sales force out of the picture and therefore less willing to tout the cars?

I agree that VW is making a big move after being forced to in settlement of their diesel scandal. The other Europeans, in spite of those announcements are really slow in their EV ramp up, but they are under more regulatory pressure than US Korean and Japanese companies.
 

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In 2022 and later, is Ford going to ramp up production of the Mach E and others on the platform so that there are enough of them to sit on dealer lots in significant numbers side by side with their ICE SUVs and have salesmen enthusiastically say take a test drive and compare? OR, are they going to keep this somewhat confusing hybrid of online sale/dealer delivery system with more limited numbers, keeping the dealer sales force out of the picture and therefore less willing to tout the cars?
Well we're clearly beta testers for what Ford sees as the next step in car sales, but I hope they ramp up BEV production enough that they can have stock on dealer lots. Giving people who are hesitant to go electric a chance to compare side-by-side could have a huge impact.
 
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