[Mp71323]

I have a question I hope someone can answer for me. How does the heater work in electric vehicles with n ok engine heat or heater core to produce heat for the inside?

 

[theothertom]

Most EV's have an electric strip type heater that is powered by the battery. And yes, your range will decrease by maybe 20% if you have the heat on. Nissan Leaf (I think) uses a heat pump which doesn't use as much power but also has a strip heater just like a home heat pump does.

 

[Cowherd.J]

The battery uses an advanced active liquid heating and cooling system to manage the temperature for the Mach-E. The battery pack sits under the floor, with liquid plates providing both cooling and heating as needed.

Here's some explanations on the system:

Ford:
The Mustang Mach-E comes equipped with a 75.7 kWh or a 98.8 kWh battery that has state-of-the-art lithium-ion battery cells with nickel manganese cobalt (NMC) cathode, typical for automotive batteries. The pack is located underneath the vehicle. The high-voltage battery system uses an advanced active liquid heating and cooling system to regulate high-voltage battery temperature and help maximize the performance of the high-voltage battery.

Clean Technica:
There are some key differences in the pack from what Tesla is doing. For one, the pack will use flat pouch cells instead of cylindrical cells. While seemingly difficult to cool (Nissan didn’t even bother to cool its pouch cells in the LEAF), Ford did put an extensive cooling system with aluminum fins between all cells to cool them as evenly as possible under even extreme conditions. When a driver pushes the car hard, it has active shutters in the lower part of the front bumper that supply extra air to the radiator to make sure the battery doesn’t overheat.

 

[theothertom]

The battery uses an advanced active liquid heating and cooling system to manage the temperature for the Mach-E. The battery pack sits under the floor, with liquid plates providing both cooling and heating as needed.

All of that is correct. But it doesn't produce heat for the cabin, which was the OP's question as I understood it.

 

[c-max]

I have a question I hope someone can answer for me. How does the heater work in electric vehicles with n ok engine heat or heater core to produce heat for the inside?

we have a 2013 c max energi that we love!!!!.....here in north jersey, we can get those cold days, and we have used the heated seats almost all winter with no decrease in battery.....at first I saw mach e select did not have nor was there an option for heated seats.....in my experience with the plug in c max, the heated seats are a MUST.....well Friday I went to the dealer and put down my deposit and the dealer said the was an option for heated seats in the select mach e ( i saw it listed too).....

 

[Cowherd.J]

All of that is correct. But it doesn't produce heat for the cabin, which was the OP's question as I understood it.

Ohhhh ok my bad. I read it completely different lol.

Well I was able to find Nissan's explanation for how the Leaf warms up so hopefully this helps a bit more. Haven't found anything on the Mach-E yet.

World's first EV power-saving cabin heater
A heat-pump cabin heater has been adopted for heating an electric vehicle (EV), using less power than conventional models. It greatly improves power consumption when the heater is being used. Nissan LEAF is the first mass-produced vehicle in the world to employ a heat-pump cabin heater.

Technology Functionality
Gasoline vehicles re-use engine exhaust heat to provide the warm air for the functions of the heater. An EV, however, does not have this heat source to recycle and so uses its general power for cabin heating.

Conventional air-conditioning systems used an electrical heater, but since the use of the heater directly relates to power consumption, actual driving range was significantly reduced.

A heat-pump system, meanwhile, heats the cabin using the temperature difference between a refrigerant and the outside air, obtaining a heating effect other than consuming electricity, and making it possible to heat the car cabin with less power than conventionally.

Technology Configuration
When the heater is in use, the external capacitor absorbs heat from the atmosphere [1] and then compresses it into high-temperature heat [2]. The cold air in the cabin is heated [3] and hot air is blown into the cabin out of the air-conditioning grille [4]. After the heat decompresses to a low temperature, it is released out of the car [5].

In the summer, heat is absorbed from inside the cabin and released outside by the external capacitor, functioning as a cooling and heating system.

A heat-pump is unique in that with one refrigerant circuit it can be used for both cooling and heating, with the heat from the outside air being transferable to the cabin just by the power consumption of the pump.

A more efficient air-conditioning system is achieved through optimization of the heat exchanger design that implements low power consumption, along with heating and cooling according to set temperatures, and temperature control when switching between cooler and heater that optimally adjust the compressor rotation.

 

[Florida678]

Tesla drivers in Scandinavia are reporting 20-30% decrease in range in winter conditions. Winter meaning constant -5 to 32F temps.

 

[Billyk24]

Tesla owners in the USA have reported on range losses of up to 40% during real cold winter weather.

 

[imstriker]

I use a Leaf as my daily and can definitely confirm the 40% drop in range with it. I try to live with heated seats and steering wheel on, but I do turn on the heat to 60 degrees at times. Even with the heat pump, it pulls the range down at an amazing rate.

 

[Cowherd.J]

I use a Leaf as my daily and can definitely confirm the 40% drop in range with it. I try to live with heated seats and steering wheel on, but I do turn on the heat to 60 degrees at times. Even with the heat pump, it pulls the range down at an amazing rate.

Does the 40% drop affect the way they way you drive on your commute? Or will range still get you where you need to go?

 

[imstriker]

Well in my 2013 Leaf, you have to understand that it doesn't get you too far to begin with. In the summer I really never have to think about range. In the winter, I may be lucky to get 40 around town miles. I'm still good for work and most things close by, but the Grand Cherokee comes out a lot more often for other things. Even with that though, a lot of times I can throw it on the charger for a hour after work and get a good deal back for the evening. I'd say it still meets over 90% of my needs.

 

[Cowherd.J]

Well in my 2013 Leaf, you have to understand that it doesn't get you too far to begin with. In the summer I really never have to think about range. In the winter, I may be lucky to get 40 around town miles. I'm still good for work and most things close by, but the Grand Cherokee comes out a lot more often for other things. Even with that though, a lot of times I can throw it on the charger for a hour after work and get a good deal back for the evening. I'd say it still meets over 90% of my needs.

That's still pretty solid that it can fit your needs even with 40 miles of range around town.

 

[imstriker]

Took me many months of driving this thing to look at things differently. In the Jeep at 40 miles I would be panicking trying to find Diesel. With this I can drive 20, charge for an hour, drive another 20 even in the winter. It's always full and ready and warm in the morning. Getting over the range anxiety is the hardest part.

 

[Cowherd.J]

Took me many months of driving this thing to look at things differently. In the Jeep at 40 miles I would be panicking trying to find Diesel. With this I can drive 20, charge for an hour, drive another 20 even in the winter. It's always full and ready and warm in the morning. Getting over the range anxiety is the hardest part.

Range anxiety is going to be such a huge thing to deal with for a lot of people, including myself. But I feel that as long as you know where the charging stations are you'll be good to go.

 

[Plutoman15]

So does anyone know if the mach-e will have a heat pump or just resistant heat?

 

[Marcel]

From:
Ford Mustang Mach-E mainstreams the electric crossover SUV

The cabin climate system uses resistive electrical (PTC) heaters like Tesla does rather than the more efficient heat pump (reverse AC) system that a few other car makers have adopted. Rear seat vents at the back side of the center console help keep would-be backseat drivers comfortable.

 

[MachDrive]

Ford recommends preconditioning the car while its plugged in during extreme temperatures to help reduce the hit on range:

https://www.ford.com/buy-site-wide-content/overlays/what-effects-range.html

 

[Baz Fell]

Most EV's have an electric strip type heater that is powered by the battery. And yes, your range will decrease by maybe 20% if you have the heat on. Nissan Leaf (I think) uses a heat pump which doesn't use as much power but also has a strip heater just like a home heat pump does.

I think you might be confusing the reduction of range with the temperature the battery needs to operates at (and therefore has to warm itself) as opposed to just inside the cabin. I have done tests and at near 0deg.C and with or without cabin heating on I doubt it would make even 5% difference to your range (but that depends on your car insulation, speed, distance, wind, your prefererd comfort level...etc). Your range may well decrease by 20% in such cold conditions - but thats the battery being temeprature sensitive rather than the occupants.

 

[imstriker]

In the Leaf, the heat pump is effective down to a certain temperature. Below about 40ish (I think) it kicks into full resistive heater. At that point, the range goes away in a hurry. On my Leaf in our current weather I lose 30-40% of range easily. Given that is partly an impact of having a really small battery. Normally I get 60+ miles range at 80% charge. These days I feel lucky to get 40 if I use the heater. Even without the heater, just the less effective battery charge in cold impacts quite a lot.

 

[SD_Solar]

Yep, battery pack temp will make a big difference in how many KWH’s you can charge into the pack at cold temps.

It will be close to a 1% drop in pack capacity for each 4F the pack temp is below 70F.
So if your Mach-E 99 KWH pack is at 10F and fully charged --- you will really have only
70F – 10F /4F = 15% loss in capacity or about 84 KWH’s in the pack.

This is about a 45 to 50 mile hit in range before you even start the car or turn the heat On.