[Jayally]

I can only afford this car due to the rebates and credits and I'm fortunate to live in Southern CA with plenty of Ford Dealerships and would go to another dealer if they add anything extra and don't take X plan. Because it's so much money I am also willing to walk away and check out the Y or wait for the RAV4 prime or any number of upcoming BEV coming out in the next year. Ford needs to keep in mind many other MFG are jumping in and if they play these types of games on an untested car they'll quickly lose market share.

 

[Summerlin Bob]

Based on my experiences today at two dealers, I don't believe that you will have any problems finding a dealer

 

[almaz47]

The $15K ADM was a single dealer in the San Diego area who has now lost a customer.
The few other dealers asking more than a few $100 ADM have either lost customers or changed their story. They don’t understand the power of the internet. I do expect there will be a few unconnected suckers who continue with such dealers blindly and attempted dealer screwing will take place upon delivery. It will be ugly.

Do you due diligence. Make sure now your dealer won’t charge ADM and will take X-plan. If not. Find another dealer from the list.

Omg. That’s scary given I reserved mine in one of the highly regarded SD dealer.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Omg. That’s scary given I reserved mine in one of the highly regarded SD dealer.

Have you confirmed with them they will not charge ADM and will accept X-plan?

 

[Summerlin Bob]

Don't worry, I reserved at a dealer who ultimately refused to honor the X Plan so I went to another dealer and when the order paperwork is completed the second dealer will be the dealer of record. Before you sign a thing confirm that they will honor the discount and sticker pricing

 

[PlayNiceGuys]

This is a bit disturbing:

Electrek reached out to Ford about the issue, but the automaker said that it’s up to the customers and dealers to agree on a price:

Elon must be laughing his a$$ off...

Because he managed not to loose 100's of millions of dollars for one quarter? Tesla's net loss 2014-2019 | Statista

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Just an FWIW comment. I have a friend who is an auto broker in Oregon that started nosing around for a new dealer for me as the one out here has literally no clue about the ordering process and actually suggested I wait until there were demo cars available next year. Oh, and they add adm to everything (as do virtually all dealers in Hawaii). What the end result was the Broker could not find a single dealer willing to sell a Mach-e, reservation or not, for less than $10,000 over MSRP. And they're getting it atm. Not from me, but from some.

I'll be looking elsewhere on the mainland but the odds are well above 50/50 that I'll cancel the reservation and buy something else at this point. Quite discouraging.

 

[JTK44]

Out of curiosity - as I live in the New York Metropolitan area where we have many dealers competing for our business, and except for hard to get cars, cars are always sold below MSRP - never with ADM:

• Is ADM normal for all cars?
• Does the used car market reflect the ADM: in other words if the ADM is $5,000 on a Ford Escape, and wholesale on the mainland 3 years later is $15,000 is the wholesale in Hawaii $20,000?

If the used car market does not reflect ADM, then only the very wealthy will be buying new. Makes no sense to pay an ADM and watch that disappear when you go to sell and/or trade your car in a few years.

On the other hand, being on an Island, I assume the average mileage per year is low, and so I would also assume cars are kept much longer than on the mainland?

 

[Summerlin Bob]

Just an FWIW comment. I have a friend who is an auto broker in Oregon that started nosing around for a new dealer for me as the one out here has literally no clue about the ordering process and actually suggested I wait until there were demo cars available next year. Oh, and they add adm to everything (as do virtually all dealers in Hawaii). What the end result was the Broker could not find a single dealer willing to sell a Mach-e, reservation or not, for less than $10,000 over MSRP. And they're getting it atm. Not from me, but from some.

I'll be looking elsewhere on the mainland but the odds are well above 50/50 that I'll cancel the reservation and buy something else at this point. Quite discouraging.

I believe that there was an Oregon dealer on the NO ADM list that was in a post

 

[ChasingCoral]

Just an FWIW comment. I have a friend who is an auto broker in Oregon that started nosing around for a new dealer for me as the one out here has literally no clue about the ordering process and actually suggested I wait until there were demo cars available next year. Oh, and they add adm to everything (as do virtually all dealers in Hawaii). What the end result was the Broker could not find a single dealer willing to sell a Mach-e, reservation or not, for less than $10,000 over MSRP. And they're getting it atm. Not from me, but from some.

I'll be looking elsewhere on the mainland but the odds are well above 50/50 that I'll cancel the reservation and buy something else at this point. Quite discouraging.

At least one in Oregon dealer with no ADM on the No ADM list being maintained by the Mach E Forum.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Out of curiosity - as I live in the New York Metropolitan area where we have many dealers competing for our business, and except for hard to get cars, cars are always sold below MSRP - never with ADM:

• Is ADM normal for all cars?
• Does the used car market reflect the ADM: in other words if the ADM is $5,000 on a Ford Escape, and wholesale on the mainland 3 years later is $15,000 is the wholesale in Hawaii $20,000?

If the used car market does not reflect ADM, then only the very wealthy will be buying new. Makes no sense to pay an ADM and watch that disappear when you go to sell and/or trade your car in a few years.

On the other hand, being on an Island, I assume the average mileage per year is low, and so I would also assume cars are kept much longer than on the mainland?

Hawaii is different in a lot of ways and some of those differences account for the cost of business here. First, Hawaii is the most isolated archipelago in the world. The nearest continent is 2500 nautical miles away. Shipping is expensive. We're also a fairly small state population-wise, we have less than 1.6 million residents (excluding military), with 1 million of those being on Oahu and the rest being divided among the remaining 6 main (inhabited) islands. At any given time there are also about 250,000 tourists here (pre-pandemic). The shipping of cars is expensive even with the discounts the major manufacturers have. A car shipped from Long Beach or Oakland will take about a month to 6 weeks to reach one of the "neighbor islands" and about 3 weeks to Oahu. The personal cost to ship a car/pickup is a bit under $1700. Ford isn't paying that, but it gives you an idea. The neighbor islands all have 1 Ford dealer each. Oahu with the one million population has 3.

Almost all dealers here, regardless of whether they're Ford or not, routinely add ADM to all new car sales. They will then usually negotiate down to or slightly under MSRP, except for certain limited run or very high demand cars (such as the GT-500) where the price tends to be the price. Some are aggressive about the markup, others are not. The Mach-e manufacturer relationship is a bit different in some ways. The dealers have no holdback on the car. Their MSRP and their "invoice" are also identical. Yes, they will get a cut of the sale from Ford of some amount but it's not the typical arrangement (I'm not justifying that arrangement by any means). The dealers are also having to install multiple DC Fast Chargers. Those are expensive propositions anywhere, but in Hawaii even more so. So, hence the ADM "justification." Used cars do not get an ADM as that amount is built into the price (no MSRP).

I'm not the only person with these concerns about the ADM here (or Oregon for that matter). But sometimes there's a bit of movement. A friend on Hawaii island apparently talked to the GM of his Ford Dealer, The ADM there is low enough that it's not a deal-breaker for either him and is well less than the cost of shipping from California. Plus it avoids making a mainland flight during round 1.5 of our pandemic. So I'll be talking to the folks at Orchid Isle Ford today and seeing what the deal is and making the change to them if it looks good. Interisland barge shipping (Young Brothers actually does all the car shipping within the state, Matson & Pasha bring the cars to Young Brothers) has opened up again for personal cars so this gives the customer population a bit more flexibility.

EDIT: The long and short of this is that a Hawaii resident's mainland car cost would be: MSRP (or MSRP- Xplan if you can find it) + Matson Shipping ($1700) + the Hawaii State car import tax (equal to our version of a sales tax). There's a point where that hassle is worthwhile and a point where it makes sense to pay adm IF you want the vehicle.

 

[JTK44]

I was not suggesting buying in the Mainland and shipping to Hawaii: that seems like a lot of extra work for marginal if any savings..

I then assume that the used car market vs. the mainland is much stronger and often reflects the ADM?

If so then you pay more and when selling and/or trading in you get more, pretty much a wash.

By the second year, I do not think the dealers here in the States will be able to get ADM on the Mustang, maybe the GT. So anyone who pays an ADM now, will not recoup that extra payment when they go to sell and/or trade in their MachE.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

We bought a 2020 Ford Raptor to replace my wife's aging (2000? 1999??) Jeep Wrangler. It was purchased on the mainland and shipped here. We had to pay Hawaii's G.E.T (general excise tax, it's really a VAT), plus vehicle inspection fees ($25 USD-no big deal), the registration, plus shipping. Cost savings over purchasing here? $5600. That was worth the time and effort (pre-pandemic again -- early February. I'm not certain I'd like the idea of visiting Northern California atm).

As for the used car market, the one thing I did not mention was the normal shape of the economy here. We are a very tourist-dependent economy. Most of those jobs are at or near the minimum wage level, $10.10 in Hawaii. That keeps a damper on some levels of used car prices a bit. I've never bought a used car ever, so I'm not exactly the best authority on this.

All it boils down to is what is it worth to you realistically? $15,000 or $10,000 extra? No way, never. How about $1,000? Ok, now we are under the cost at MSRP plus shipping from the mainland. That might be ok if our hypothetical buyer wants the first-year model. Otherwise, wait. Interisland? it's $350 to $400 dollars to/from Honolulu to/from the neighbor islands on Young Brothers. So then you need a price that accounts for that.

I'm hoping that in the other 49 states the deals are at or very near MSRP, or less. That's good for the buyers and the model I think.

Honestly though, these are all first-world problems. It's not like we're discussing thermonuclear war or something.

 

[JTK44]

Or children going to bed hungry and people dying because they cannot afford their medication.

No politics, but yes these are First World problems!

 

[Tomterky]

Hudson Ford in Wisconsin has no ADM and will take X-plan pricing. Confirmed with their COO by e-mail in writing.

 

[Diogenes]

Because he managed not to loose 100's of millions of dollars for one quarter? Tesla's net loss 2014-2019 | Statista

"loose"? You mean lose? Well Ford is losing 100s of millions as well.

Ford Reports Nearly $2 Billion Loss for Quarter

Ford Motor posted a first-quarter loss that the auto maker said largely reflected the impact of the pandemic on its business, as its revenue fell 15%.

www.wsj.com

No.. Elon would be laughing his a$$ off because Ford finally has a reasonably competitive product yet they're stuck in their mid 20th century thinking and can't get out of their own way.

I'm here because I chose the Mach E over the model Y based on many factors and the cost (including the tax rebates). But if my Mach E ends up costing $15K more, I'm pretty sure there will be a model Y in the driveway (annoyances and all).

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[slambertr]

I had a great experience with my local dealer - New Holland Ford (PA). Placed my order and the sales manager called the next day - confirmed no ADM and reviewed the specifics of my order with me. Very happy with the whole process and hopeful I'll see my Premium before the end of the year!

 

[Thomas1920]

I noticed you referenced end of year. Did they give any idea of timing? I read somewhere 10-12 weeks but my dealer said they didn’t know when it will be delivered.

 

[MachDrive]

I noticed you referenced end of year. Did they give any idea of timing? I read somewhere 10-12 weeks but my dealer said they didn’t know when it will be delivered.

Rumor is, Ford hopes to see some on the road before the end of September...Which would mean October in realistic-speak.

 

[slambertr]

I noticed you referenced end of year. Did they give any idea of timing? I read somewhere 10-12 weeks but my dealer said they didn’t know when it will be delivered.

No - the Dealer didn't have any more specific information. Ford has consistently said "late 2020" for First Edition and Premier models.