Mach-E Forum | Ford Mustang Mach-E Forum and News banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
1,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just went to my Ford dealer, Biener Ford in Great Neck, NY to see if they had any MachE for sale:

Yes they do: In fact it looks like they have not one but two for sale!

Interesting the dealer says they are in "transit" and there is $2,500 discount off of list price.

If this is accurate, and I am not saying it is, makes you wonder why we even bothered with making a reservation then converting it to an order and further that if other dealers have MachE for sale buyers can expect discounts.

see: New Ford Cars For Sale in Great Neck, NY | Biener Ford

and

Screenshot (61).png



and


and





and

window sticker:


3501
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,223 Posts
There's a $2,500 Ford Options incentive and I'm sure many dealers ordered MMEs to sell to those customers who arent exactly going to buy a car through the interwebs.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
1,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Another local dealer:

see: New Ford SUVs for Sale in Lynbrook NY | Crown Ford (crownfordlynbrook.com)

and

3502



and
There's a $2,500 Ford Options incentive and I'm sure many dealers ordered MMEs for those customers who arent exactly buy a car through the interwebs types.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

Maybe, but if that were the case they are sold why would they be offering the cars for sale?

Here they are not only offering the cars for sale, but also giving you the VIN and the window sticker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
All of the Ford dealers in my area within 100 miles (many) each have one Premium Mach E listed on their inventory. It is listed as dealer ordered and in transit. Even though it looks as if it could be for sale, I am assuming they are all dealer demos and are not for sale. I guess the only way to find out is to to try to buy one, either in person or by internet inquiry. My money is on these being dealer demos and through the magic of the internet they automatically get posted on the dealers inventory after they are built. Either that or all the dealers are using them as click bait.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,223 Posts
Maybe, but if that were the case they are sold why would they be offering the cars for sale?

Here they are not only offering the cars for sale, but also giving you the VIN and the window sticker.
That's my point... Dealers ordered additional MMEs on top of the demo order for those customers who would never order a car through the internet. They want to have some on the lot for the guy who walks in off the street and wants to buy one. We can expect the same for the Bronco as well.

Why does it surprise you that Ford allowed their dealers to order MMEs for sale?
Do you really think Ford told their dealers... "sorry... only end customers can order a MME, not our dealer network"?
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
1,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That's my point... Dealers ordered additional MMEs on top of the demo order for those customers who would never order a car through the internet. They want to have some on the lot for the guy who walks in off the street and wants to buy one. We can expect the same for the Bronco as well.

Why does it surprise you that Ford allowed their dealers to order MMEs for sale?
Do you really think Ford told their dealers... "sorry... only end customers can order a MME, not our dealer network"?
The mark up, dealer's profit, on the MME is totally different than on other Fords.

This fact has been posted many times on this forum. It is substantially less. Unlike an ICE where the markup, holdbacks, etc. are substantial, to be profitable the dealer must sell the MME quickly and at full MSRP.

Many dealers do not even want the MME because of the extra cost involved with an EV.

My theory, and it is only a theory, is that even with production limited to 20,000 units in 2021 to the United States, Ford did not sell out the MME and this left cars for the dealers to take.

In support of my theory is that you can go to Ford.com today, place an order for the MME with delivery in the spring of of 2021.

Tesla is producing nearly 500,000 model 3 and Y per year and there are none in stock. Depending on the model the wait is 2 to 4 weeks.

Ford is producing 20,000 and dealer's have stock. There will be no wait.

What does that tell you about the demand for the MME? Remember the demand, not selling price, determines the resale value of a car. Without demand like Tesla, the MME might depreciate like the Volt, the Audi Etron and other BEV's.

My rapid red FE has a selling price of $58,800. I am afraid that in 3 years it may be worth less than $25,000. While I can afford to lose over $30,000 in depreciation, I of course do not want to. I do not think anyone does. Nor am I prepared to keep the MME for 6 years. Look how much Tesla have advanced in 3 years. In 3 years I expect a plethora of BEV's, price to come down, charging speeds and range to increase.

The only way to protect yourself against this depreciation is by leasing. That is why I will only take delivery of my FE is Ford comes out with a competitive RCL.

.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,793 Posts
The mark up, dealer's profit, on the MME is totally different than on other Fords.

This fact has been posted many times on this forum. It is substantially less. Unlike an ICE where the markup, holdbacks, etc. are substantial, to be profitable the dealer must sell the MME quickly and at full MSRP.

Many dealers do not even want the MME because of the extra cost involved with an EV.

My theory, and it is only a theory, is that even with production limited to 20,000 units in 2021 to the United States, Ford did not sell out the MME and this left cars for the dealers to take.

In support of my theory is that you can go to Ford.com today, place an order for the MME with delivery in the spring of of 2021.

Tesla is producing nearly 500,000 model 3 and Y per year and there are none in stock. Depending on the model the wait is 2 to 4 weeks.

Ford is producing 20,000 and dealer's have stock. There will be no wait.

What does that tell you about the demand for the MME? Remember the demand, not selling price, determines the resale value of a car. Without demand like Tesla, the MME might depreciate like the Volt, the Audi Etron and other BEV's.

My rapid red FE has a selling price of $58,800. I am afraid that in 3 years it may be worth less than $25,000. While I can afford to lose over $30,000 in depreciation, I of course do not want to. I do not think anyone does. Nor am I prepared to keep the MME for 6 years. Look how much Tesla have advanced in 3 years. In 3 years I expect a plethora of BEV's, price to come down, charging speeds and range to increase.

The only way to protect yourself against this depreciation is by leasing. That is why I will only take delivery of my FE is Ford comes out with a competitive RCL.

.
Each participating dealer was allowed to purchase up to two MMes through the FCTP program. This was stated back in June. Some dealers list one on their site, others two. My dealer is not listing his yet. One will be in the showroom for a while at first.

Technically, they are supposed to be used for test drives, demo loaners, or showrooms for a period of six months/5000 miles before they could be sold. But it looks like some may be putting them up for sale now. Or, as is often the case, they may just be click-bait as ‘examples’ getting you to come in and order.

The MMe sales will do just fine. We need to wait to see past Q1 what the continuing demand is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
The mark up, dealer's profit, on the MME is totally different than on other Fords.

This fact has been posted many times on this forum. It is substantially less. Unlike an ICE where the markup, holdbacks, etc. are substantial, to be profitable the dealer must sell the MME quickly and at full MSRP.

Many dealers do not even want the MME because of the extra cost involved with an EV.

My theory, and it is only a theory, is that even with production limited to 20,000 units in 2021 to the United States, Ford did not sell out the MME and this left cars for the dealers to take.

In support of my theory is that you can go to Ford.com today, place an order for the MME with delivery in the spring of of 2021.

Tesla is producing nearly 500,000 model 3 and Y per year and there are none in stock. Depending on the model the wait is 2 to 4 weeks.

Ford is producing 20,000 and dealer's have stock. There will be no wait.

What does that tell you about the demand for the MME? Remember the demand, not selling price, determines the resale value of a car. Without demand like Tesla, the MME might depreciate like the Volt, the Audi Etron and other BEV's.

My rapid red FE has a selling price of $58,800. I am afraid that in 3 years it may be worth less than $25,000. While I can afford to lose over $30,000 in depreciation, I of course do not want to. I do not think anyone does. Nor am I prepared to keep the MME for 6 years. Look how much Tesla have advanced in 3 years. In 3 years I expect a plethora of BEV's, price to come down, charging speeds and range to increase.

The only way to protect yourself against this depreciation is by leasing. That is why I will only take delivery of my FE is Ford comes out with a competitive RCL.

.
There is a lot of hype about this car and the VW ID4 as well. At this point people are still excited and maybe not thinking about the potential loss of value. Some will justify the depreciation as not a real factor because they plan on keeping the car for many years. I for example keep my cars for along time, always 8-10 years but I want the comfort of knowing that if it doesn't meet my longer term expectations or some very significant technology comes out that I can get out without losing my shirt. Average depreciation is about 20-15-15 for the first 3 years based on MSRP. What do you think a fair residual would be? .
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
1,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There is a lot of hype about this car and the VW ID4 as well. At this point people are still excited and maybe not thinking about the potential loss of value. Some will justify the depreciation as not a real factor because they plan on keeping the car for many years. I for example keep my cars for along time, always 8-10 years but I want the comfort of knowing that if it doesn't meet my longer term expectations or some very significant technology comes out that I can get out without losing my shirt. Average depreciation is about 20-15-15 for the first 3 years based on MSRP. What do you think a fair residual would be? .
Whether it is "fair" or not, when I lease, 10K miles per year, 3 years,, residuals are between 56% and 61%, the most usual between 57% and 58%.

When residuals go below 55%, lease payments, as compared to other cars in the same price range, are not competitive.

I always keep the lease terms within the manufacturer's warranty. Beyond 30,000 miles, you often have to replace the tires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Whether it is "fair" or not, when I lease, 10K miles per year, 3 years,, residuals are between 56% and 61%, the most usual between 57% and 58%.

When residuals go below 55%, lease payments, as compared to other cars in the same price range, are not competitive.

I always keep the lease terms within the manufacturer's warranty. Beyond 30,000 miles, you often have to replace the tires.
How do you handle the tax credit? I don't think it should come off the cap value.....
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
1,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
How do you handle the tax credit? I don't think it should come off the cap value.....
Most manufacturers put into the lease, as a cap cost reduction, aka down payment, the Federal Tax Credit of $7,500.

There has been many, many postings on this forum, that without the Federal Tax Credit as a cap cost reduction, a lease on the MME will be non competitive.

Ford policy to date, which may change, is to give the Federal Tax credit in the Option Plan. However, the balloon, similar to the residual in a lease, on the Option Plan, 3 years, 10K miles per year, is at 43%/44% depending on the model. The payments under the Option Plan are not competitive with a lease from other manufacturers of similarly priced cars.

The Ford Option Plan is not really a lease, but a deferred payment plan, a financing plan.

Hope this clarifies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Actually, dealers are showing them in inventory to get people to come in to the dealership. Believe me, I know. I have seen them too and I have called every dealership in a 500 mile radius of Seattle to see if one was actually available for retail. Each and every time, the answer was no. Some dealerships even had vehicles that have already been sold to customers who ordered on the web listed. Most of them were putting the two they had coming for management and loaner programs on their site (and sites like cars.com or autotrader.com) as available for retail which they were not.

I have a Premium AWD-ER on order and my only requirement was that it be delivered this year. I need the tax break. Not only will mine not be delivered this year, it could be as late as May before I see it. Thus why I called all the dealerships within 500 miles that showed inventory. None of the dealerships had actually even received one yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,223 Posts
Actually, dealers are showing them in inventory to get people to come in to the dealership. Believe me, I know. I have seen them too and I have called every dealership in a 500 mile radius of Seattle to see if one was actually available for retail. Each and every time, the answer was no. Some dealerships even had vehicles that have already been sold to customers who ordered on the web listed. Most of them were putting the two they had coming for management and loaner programs on their site (and sites like cars.com or autotrader.com) as available for retail which they were not.

I have a Premium AWD-ER on order and my only requirement was that it be delivered this year. I need the tax break. Not only will mine not be delivered this year, it could be as late as May before I see it. Thus why I called all the dealerships within 500 miles that showed inventory. None of the dealerships had actually even received one yet.
At the present, the car market is pretty hot in my small upstate NY city. Many reasons for this:
  • A lot of people who can't work remote aren't comfortable taking public transportation. People would rather drive than take the train to NYC.
  • The great exodus out of NYC to suburban/rural homes and people moving into their weekend homes full time. A lot of them need a car/second car.
  • People who were able to keep their jobs through the pandemic and came away unscathed have more discretionary funds than ever - vacations cancelled, no money spent on gasoline, no eating out, NASDAQ is up 40%+ this year... Crazy but the Pandemic made many people wealthier.
Right now there are still some inventory issues due to the pandemic production shutdown and dealerships are desperate for used cars. I suspect this may be the case for a lot of other areas as well.

I'm not sure how long this will sustain. Ford needs to fill the demand when it's there. The Bronco delay is unfortunate... orders will be cancelled. MME? we'll see.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,793 Posts
At the present, the car market is pretty hot in my small upstate NY city. Many reasons for this:
  • A lot of people who can't work remote aren't comfortable taking public transportation. People would rather drive than take the train to NYC.
  • The great exodus out of NYC to suburban/rural homes and people moving into their weekend homes full time. A lot of them need a car/second car.
  • People who were able to keep their jobs through the pandemic and came away unscathed have more discretionary funds than ever - vacations cancelled, no money spent on gasoline, no eating out, NASDAQ is up 40%+ this year... Crazy but the Pandemic made many people wealthier.
Right now there are still some inventory issues due to the pandemic production shutdown and dealerships are desperate for used cars. I suspect this may be the case for a lot of other areas as well.

I'm not sure how long this will sustain. Ford needs to fill the demand when it's there. The Bronco delay is unfortunate... orders will be cancelled. MME? we'll see.
I don’t know, I think very few Broncos will be cancelled because of the delay. Anyone needing a car as your scenario outlined wouldn’t be waiting for the Bronco in the first place.

Its not just your town, the whole tri-State area is the same. Good news (for me) about the inventory shortages, resale value of used cars is higher than ever. Great for my trade-in when getting my MMe.

It will be some time before MMe’s will be available off the lot in any large numbers. Ford extended the reservation conversion deadline to mid-February to allow for the hold-outs waiting for test-drives. I expect a decent number may commit.

This, with back-to-back production with the MMe GT, will bring us close to the end of the year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Actually, dealers are showing them in inventory to get people to come in to the dealership. Believe me, I know. I have seen them too and I have called every dealership in a 500 mile radius of Seattle to see if one was actually available for retail. Each and every time, the answer was no. Some dealerships even had vehicles that have already been sold to customers who ordered on the web listed. Most of them were putting the two they had coming for management and loaner programs on their site (and sites like cars.com or autotrader.com) as available for retail which they were not.

I have a Premium AWD-ER on order and my only requirement was that it be delivered this year. I need the tax break. Not only will mine not be delivered this year, it could be as late as May before I see it. Thus why I called all the dealerships within 500 miles that showed inventory. None of the dealerships had actually even received one yet.
Did you ever find a MME?
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top