[ElectricPony]

Electrify America will be moving to pay by kWh pricing, according to InsideEVs. They were able to get the news straight from the mouth of Electrify America's President and CEO, Giovanni Palazzo.

Exclusive: Electrify America Will Transition To Pay By kWh Pricing, And More

in an InsideEVs exclusive interview with Electrify America's CEO Giovanni Palazzo, we learn the company plans to transition to a pay-by-kWh pricing structure.

insideevs.com

The departure from their current pay-by-time model was undoubtedly inspired by California's decision to require EV charging stations to charge according to the amount of energy given to the vehicle, and not by how long the car was connected to the charging station.

The California legislation applies to all newly-installed Level 2 chargers beginning in 2021, and to new DC fast chargers beginning in 2023. Chargers installed before 2021 can continue to use time-based billing until 2031 (for Level 2 chargers) or 2033 (for DC fast chargers).

"We totally believe this is the right decision and we don't want to wait until 2023. We're going to implement this well ahead of 2023" - Electrify America CEO Giovanni Palazzo on transitioning from a time-based charging method to kWh based

However, Electrify America isn't going to wait until 2023. They have decided that the pay-by-kWh is a more fair method, and promise to make the switch well before 2023. Palazzo wouldn't offer an exact date but stressed that he's completely on board with the transition, and would have likely come to this conclusion even if California hadn't mandated it.

"We embrace this. When we started out as a new organization we believed that a tier-based policy would help. At the time, we were the only ones bringing out 150 kW and 350 kW stations... kWh based pricing is our future. We want to make it right and we want to make it simple" - Giovanni Palazzo

Palazzo explained that some states won't allow kWh-based pricing because they don't allow entities to resell electricity. In those states, Electrify America will continue to sell "time" on their charging station. This is most likely why Electrify America started out with the pay-by-time pricing structure because they wanted to have one pricing scheme everywhere.

Palazzo said that the company will offer the pay-by-kWh pricing wherever they are allowed to, and only stick with the time-based pricing in states where charging by the kWh isn't allowed.

 

[JTK44]

Thanks for posting! Very informative. $.24 per KWH for 98 KW, long range battery, equates to $23.52 for 280 miles or expected range or $.0840 per mile.

With regular gas at about $2.00 a gallon, a car like a Ford Escape that gets about 28 mpg, to drive 280 miles, would take 10 gallons, or about $20.00 of gas. Of course the Escape has a 15.8 gallon tank so the range is over 400miles. miles.

I was hoping that "Apples to Apples" the MachE would be significantly less to operate than an ICE, but that turned out not to be true.

So we are getting the MachE not to save money, it cost almost $30,000 more than the Escape, but for the experience of driving an EV, the performance and to help the environment.

Going forward, for BEV to be competitive with mainstream ICE, either the range of the batteries must be extended, or the price of electricity must be reduced. I do not thing the latter will happen, so battery range must improve.

To many people on a budget, and in reality most Americans are, an EV that cost almost double what an ICE costs, is not a viable option.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I was hoping that "Apples to Apples" the MachE would be significantly less to operate than an ICE, but that turned out not to be true.

So we are getting the MachE not to save money, it cost almost $30,000 more than the Escape, but for the experience of driving an EV, the performance and to help the environment.

Going forward, for BEV to be competitive with mainstream ICE, either the range of the batteries must be extended, or the price of electricity must be reduced. I do not thing the latter will happen, so battery range must improve.

To many people on a budget, and in reality most Americans are, an EV that cost almost double what an ICE costs, is not a viable option.

Two things to remember when comparing the full cost of the apples:
1) Most BEV users primarily charge at home at a much lower cost
2) BEVs have much lower maintenance and repair costs than ICEs

 

[JTK44]

My rate per KWH is $.22 slightly less than $.24 that Electrify America is charging. Keep in mind the extra cost of installing a home charger.

For the first 36,000 miles or 3 years, when everything is under warranty: the only additional expense of an ICE over a EV is the oil change and filter: every 7,500 miles, for a cost of less than $50 per oil change and filter.

Transmissions are now warranted to 100,000 miles. So the only additional expense after 50/60,000 miles will be savings on brake replacement, with regenerative braking brakes on an EV brakes should last longer and engine repairs.

Complete brake job is under $300.

Even if you had to replace an entire engine at $5,000 that is a fraction of the additional cost of the MachE vs. Escape.

Again, the underlying reason to get the MachE is the driving experience, new cutting edge technology and helping the environment.

But the MachE wlll not save you money!

 

[timbop]

Again, the underlying reason to get the MachE is the driving experience, new cutting edge technology and helping the environment.

But the MachE wlll not save you money!

Agree with everything you said, with one hopeful exception: as renewables get better and gain more market share, the costs per kWh should decrease from economies of scale and more efficient designs. On the flipside, the actual cost of gas is far more than the price at the pump. The bigger cost related to ICE vehicles that is hard to put a "real" number on is the carbon impact. For example, what kind of economic damage will be wrought when current fertile and productive farmland is no longer viable? What happens when rising sea levels and storms obliterate billions of dollars worth of prime ocean front real estate? Farmers in many regions of the US and residents of cities like Miami can see the beginning stages of those today.

 

[abr]

Thanks for posting! Very informative. $.24 per KWH for 98 KW, long range battery, equates to $23.52 for 280 miles or expected range or $.0840 per mile.

With regular gas at about $2.00 a gallon, a car like a Ford Escape that gets about 28 mpg, to drive 280 miles, would take 10 gallons, or about $20.00 of gas. Of course the Escape has a 15.8 gallon tank so the range is over 400miles. miles.

I was hoping that "Apples to Apples" the MachE would be significantly less to operate than an ICE, but that turned out not to be true.

So we are getting the MachE not to save money, it cost almost $30,000 more than the Escape, but for the experience of driving an EV, the performance and to help the environment.

Going forward, for BEV to be competitive with mainstream ICE, either the range of the batteries must be extended, or the price of electricity must be reduced. I do not thing the latter will happen, so battery range must improve.

To many people on a budget, and in reality most Americans are, an EV that cost almost double what an ICE costs, is not a viable option.

But your "fuel" cost per mile is close to ZERO if you produce your own electricity by installing solar power. Savings on driving and savings for home electricity. Also even better for environment when you are not using electricity produced by fossil fuels. I understand this only works if you have the ability to install, but this makes a huge difference.

 

[JTK44]

I agree with you: as technology bets better the miles per KWH should improve.

I am getting either the Tesla Model Y or the MachE, my preference is the Mustang and that is why I have a confirmed reservation on the First Edition, because I want to my part in helping the environment.

You are 1000% correct: the damage to our planet by burning fossil fuels is not hundred of billions but hundred of trillions of dollars each and every year.

Even though I am approaching 76 years of age, I have children and grandchildren and I want to leave them the best world possible.

 

[ChasingCoral]

My rate per KWH is $.22 slightly less than $.24 that Electrify America is charging. Keep in mind the extra cost of installing a home charger.

Please note, you're now comparing Washington apples with New York apples. The article says:
"While we think this is great news, we'll have to wait to see what the cost structure is. If it's $.50 per kWh, then this isn't exactly good news, right? In my most recent charging session on the network, I paid $12.42 to charge a 2020 Chevy Bolt to 80% and took in 51 kWh of energy. That comes out to about 24 cents per kWh. That's not bad considering the residential cost for electricity is about 17 cents per kWh where the charging station is located."

So, while their EA cost was ~24¢ per kW (not kWh as stated in article), that was in a location where the electrical cost is ~17¢ per kW. If you are paying ~22¢ then your EA cost may be more like 29¢. As they say in the fine print, your cost may vary.

I'm not debating your point of whether the Mustang is a money saver, just pointing out you need to get all the cost differences to do a proper comparison. You also have to look at full life cycle costs for the length you tend to keep vehicles.

My reason for driving electric is to reduce my carbon footprint. My reasons for replacing my Leaf with a Mustang Mach E include fun and performance, plus demonstrating that driving electric can mean fun and performance.

 

[pbojanoski]

What happens when rising sea levels and storms obliterate billions of dollars worth of prime ocean front real estate?

Of course if the sea levels rise, it not only obliterates billions of dollars worth of prime ocean front real estate, it also creates a whole new coastline of prime ocean front real estate.

 

[Summerlin Bob]

Nevada Power offers a special rate of approx. .05 with proof of registration on EVs and PHEVs from 2201 to 0800hrs. and all weekend, this rate applies to all residential electricity during that time.

 

[RetiredDP]

When comparing ICE-vs-EV costs, everyone seems to forget that 90% of charging is done at home, and NOT on the road. But apartment dwellers do need to do the math (unless you live in California, where all newly-constructed apartments have to have charging stations). I'm getting a GT, because I'll rarely have to charge on the road.

 

[RetiredDP]

Of course if the sea levels rise, it not only obliterates billions of dollars worth of prime ocean front real estate, it also creates a whole new coastline of new prime ocean front real estate.

I live in the mountains...too long to wait to be ocean-front.

 

[machstang]

EA just announced that kWh pricing is now available in Florida and Virginia:

Electrify America Adds Florida, Virginia to Kilowatt-Hour Pricing for Electric Vehicles

Nation’s largest open EV fast charging network now bills by kilowatt-hour in 25 states and D.C.

Reston, VA (October 15, 2020) – Electric vehicle (EV) drivers in Florida and Virginia now join the growing number of Electrify America customers who pay by the amount of energy used to charge their vehicle, as the network has officially added the two states to its new kilowatt-hour (kWh) pricing plan.

Electrify America updated its pricing structure in September 2020 to reflect the growing preference for kWh pricing and to provide consistent, transparent, and competitive rates for its customers.

Electrify America now offers kilowatt-hour pricing in 25 states and the District of Columbia. The company’s ultra-fast charging network has continued to grow at a rapid pace, and currently provides EV drivers with access to 20 charging stations with 96 individual fast chargers in Virginia, and 24 charging stations with 110 individual fast chargers in Florida.

“Our focus is on the customer to provide a reliable charging experience for current and future EV drivers,” said Giovanni Palazzo, president and chief executive officer of Electrify America. “We are delighted to add Florida and Virginia, two key EV markets, and will continue working to expand kilowatt-hour pricing to even more states.”

Kilowatt-Hour Pricing - Rates as Low as $0.31 Cents Per kWh
Rates start at $0.31 per kilowatt-hour. Complete pricing information is available at ElectrifyAmerica.com/pricing and on the Electrify America mobile app, which makes charging with the network even easier. In addition to the new pricing plans, Electrify America remains committed to providing a premium charging experience to all customers of its nationwide charging network.

Read the full release on Electrify America’s new pricing plan, announced on September 16:
Electrify America Introduces New Pricing Structure Featuring Kilowatt-Hour Pricing in 23 States and District of Columbia; Reduced Rates for States with Minute-Based Pricing

View attachment 2518

 

[JTK44]

EA just announced that kWh pricing is now available in Florida and Virginia:

Electrify America Adds Florida, Virginia to Kilowatt-Hour Pricing for Electric Vehicles

Nation’s largest open EV fast charging network now bills by kilowatt-hour in 25 states and D.C.

Reston, VA (October 15, 2020) – Electric vehicle (EV) drivers in Florida and Virginia now join the growing number of Electrify America customers who pay by the amount of energy used to charge their vehicle, as the network has officially added the two states to its new kilowatt-hour (kWh) pricing plan.

Electrify America updated its pricing structure in September 2020 to reflect the growing preference for kWh pricing and to provide consistent, transparent, and competitive rates for its customers.

Electrify America now offers kilowatt-hour pricing in 25 states and the District of Columbia. The company’s ultra-fast charging network has continued to grow at a rapid pace, and currently provides EV drivers with access to 20 charging stations with 96 individual fast chargers in Virginia, and 24 charging stations with 110 individual fast chargers in Florida.

“Our focus is on the customer to provide a reliable charging experience for current and future EV drivers,” said Giovanni Palazzo, president and chief executive officer of Electrify America. “We are delighted to add Florida and Virginia, two key EV markets, and will continue working to expand kilowatt-hour pricing to even more states.”

Kilowatt-Hour Pricing - Rates as Low as $0.31 Cents Per kWh
Rates start at $0.31 per kilowatt-hour. Complete pricing information is available at ElectrifyAmerica.com/pricing and on the Electrify America mobile app, which makes charging with the network even easier. In addition to the new pricing plans, Electrify America remains committed to providing a premium charging experience to all customers of its nationwide charging network.

Read the full release on Electrify America’s new pricing plan, announced on September 16:
Electrify America Introduces New Pricing Structure Featuring Kilowatt-Hour Pricing in 23 States and District of Columbia; Reduced Rates for States with Minute-Based Pricing

View attachment 2518

Rough back of the envelope calculations:

MME LR AWD has usable 88 KW and lets assume range of 270 miles. 88 KW X $.31 = $27.28 divided by 270 miles = $.10 cents per mile.

On the open road a Ford Edge gets about 27 mpg. To go 270 miles will take 10 gallons. If regular gas is priced at $2.25 the cost will be $22.50 divided by 270 = $.08 per mile.

To achieve parity with a comparable sized SUV, the cost of electricity must be $.24 per KW or less.

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.

 

[timbop]

Rough back of the envelope calculations:

MME LR AWD has usable 88 KW and lets assume range of 270 miles. 88 KW X $.31 = $27.28 divided by 270 miles = $.10 cents per mile.

On the open road a Ford Edge gets about 27 mpg. To go 270 miles will take 10 gallons. If regular gas is priced at $2.25 the cost will be $22.50 divided by 270 = $.08 per mile.

To achieve parity with a comparable sized SUV, the cost of electricity must be $.24 per KW or less.

.

.

And if gas goes up after the pandemic as it is likely to do, then you edge will get $.09 to $.10 a mile. So, charging ON THE ROAD will be the same as gas, and as you've pointed out yourself charging at home is half the price. Even if gas stays at exactly the same price, is a $20 difference in fuel cost really an impediment to making a 1000 mile road trip?

I really think EA's pricing makes charging cost irrelevant in choosing a BEV over an ICE for a road trip. Not wanting to stop for so long and so often, sure - but cost is close enough that it doesn't matter.

 

[JTK44]

And if gas goes up after the pandemic as it is likely to do, then you edge will get $.09 to $.10 a mile. So, charging ON THE ROAD will be the same as gas, and as you've pointed out yourself charging at home is half the price. Even if gas stays at exactly the same price, is a $20 difference in fuel cost really an impediment to making a 1000 mile road trip?

I really think EA's pricing makes charging cost irrelevant in choosing a BEV over an ICE for a road trip. Not wanting to stop for so long and so often, sure - but cost is close enough that it doesn't matter.

I agree, the extra cost on a trip is not the deterrent: the deterrent is the limited range and the frequency of stops to re-charge and the length of each stop.

However remember that many people considering an BEV will not have access to a home charger and must rely on public charging. This extra cost plus the fact that a Ford Edge Titanium with the same safety options and features as MME LR AWD has a $15,000 selling price advantage and you can see the headwinds that BEV face.

I have previously posted that the primary reason to get a BEV is not to save money, but to go green.

For me going green is my primary reason to get an BEV.

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[timbop]

I have previously posted that the primary reason to get a BEV is not to save money, but to go green.

For me going green is my primary reason to get an BEV.

100% agree

 

[pca371]

For me going green is my primary reason to get an BEV.

Very, very high on my list. A small few offer that along with some exciting performance. I'm willing (and able) to pay a premium for both.

 

[MachDrive]

100% agree

It also depends on what you drive.
Believe it or not, the US national average age of registered cars is over 11 years, so you can expect the average consumer mileage of 22 mpg (possibly less). That equates to the average consumer paying .10¢ a mile. I wouldn’t be surprised if such averages are what’s used in the new Electrify America pricing structure.

That said, and to the points made above, the typical EV buyer is well-off enough to own a home, and most likely have a vehicle (or multiple vehicles) no more 3-5 years old. If properly targeting the cost based on the majority of current EV buyers, the rate per kWh has to come down a bit for price-parity.

For true EV adaption in the US, the actual cost of the vehicle has to have price-parity. All the EVs coming out are just too costly for the average consumer in the US. The 2019 median individual income was $43,206. So, for 50% of all Americans, one year gross salary is less than the starting MMe MSRP. The averaged 2019 individual income was $62,518, equal to the MMe GT MSRP. And the Mach-e is far from the most expensive EV coming to market.

I am glad EA made the steps so far to help bring down EV ownership costs. But the industry as a whole has to do more.

PS- I apologize for the statistics storm. I hope all of you are having a wonderful day.

 

[JTK44]

It also depends on what you drive.
Believe it or not, the US national average age of registered cars is over 11 years, so you can expect the average consumer mileage of 22 mpg (possibly less). That equates to the average consumer paying .10¢ a mile. I wouldn’t be surprised if such averages are what’s used in the new Electrify America pricing structure.

That said, and to the points made above, the typical EV buyer is well-off enough to own a home, and most likely have a vehicle (or multiple vehicles) no more 3-5 years old. If properly targeting the cost based on the majority of current EV buyers, the rate per kWh has to come down a bit for price-parity.

For true EV adaption in the US, the actual cost of the vehicle has to have price-parity. All the EVs coming out are just too costly for the average consumer in the US. The 2019 median individual income was $43,206. So, for 50% of all Americans, one year gross salary is less than the starting MMe MSRP. The averaged 2019 individual income was $62,518, equal to the MMe GT MSRP. And the Mach-e is far from the most expensive EV coming to market.

I am glad EA made the steps so far to help bring down EV ownership costs. But the industry as a whole has to do more.

PS- I apologize for the statistics storm. I hope all of you are having a wonderful day.

Excellent analysis!

Musk has been saying the same thing: to go mainstream the price must between $28,000 and $35,000 out the door. The range must be minimum of 250 miles and charging times under 30 minutes.

I fit the pattern: I lease two cars, both under three years of age and drive a new car every three years. I am willing to pay a "premium" to go green - but only up to a point. With the First Edition, I am not expecting the interior luxury of my Mercedes, but I do expect similar road dynamics: If the MME rides harshly, feels every bump in the road or is noisy it will be a "no go" for me.

I will just wait until Mercedes, BMW or Audi comes to market with their BEV. I have driven the Audi Etron and it is like driving an ICE Audi, except a bit quieter. But it is a "no go" for me because of range (lack of) and price!

.