Mach-E Forum | Ford Mustang Mach-E Forum and News banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,570 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ford and BMW are collaborating with Solid Power to produce a solid-state pouch-style cell.

The idea is to eventually manufacture the batteries on existing factory infrastructure and have product dimensions that fit into current applications. Prototypes are being field tested.

So if the MMe treats you well, when the current battery is end-of-life, you may just be able to replace the existing pack with a solid-state version that gets 50% more energy density.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Ford and BMW are collaborating with Solid Power to produce a solid-state pouch-style cell.

The idea is to eventually manufacture the batteries on existing factory infrastructure and have product dimensions that fit into current applications. Prototypes are being field tested.

So if the MMe treats you well, when the current battery is end-of-life, you may just be able to replace the existing pack with a solid-state version that gets 50% more energy density.

Sweet :) Thanks for sharing
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,570 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Any idea what it could cost to replace the battery when that time comes?
Let me start off by saying: I am not an expert in any of this.

My non-scientific SWAG(Simple-Wild-A**-Guess) just-for-fun on the MMe4X says:

Based on todays average rate of $137/kWh, the 98.8 kWh pack on the MMe costs about $13,500.

there are many questions as to what a solid-state technology has to offer.
The first two unknowns are:
  • cost/kWh
  • battery efficiency
Solid-state has potential to be much cheaper per kWh, and its efficiency shows dramatically reduced energy loss during charge/discharge.

The next thing to consider is if solid-state cells will indeed have the promised energy density increase by volume. More power in less space. This also leads to weight savings.

Hypothetical numbers:
  • Price per kWh = $40
  • Efficiency improvements 20% (current loss is estimated at 25%)
  • energy density +50%

With those phony numbers in mind:
  • If you buy the same kWh size battery: it will cost you about $4000, and get an estimated range of over 340 miles.
  • if you buy the same physical size battery, it will be 200kWh, cost $8000, and have a range in excess of 680 miles.
There most likely will be the need to replace/modify the Battery Management System, charger, etc in addition to the battery cost.

Why aren’t the ranges better? Well, the motors are still the same, therefore their efficiency hasn’t changed. You may get more horse-power out of the deal.

In that future time where you may be considering a battery-swap, who knows what other options will be on the market. Unless you are planning to keep the MMe for nostalgic reasons, it may be more cost-efficient to consider a new vehicle.

Who knows what the future holds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,087 Posts
Based on high mileage data from Tesla fleets (10-15% degrade between 150-200K miles), I doubt that a battery swap would be something that's done all that often.
My family will probably keep the MME for at least ~8 years. ~5 years with us then it'll be passed onto one of the kids.
We plan to drive it as much as we can in that period, using it as the primary vehicle for all local travel. 12-15K miles a year. At ~75-100K miles when the resale value begins to flatten out, I don't expect the battery to be anywhere near the replacement point.
At around 200K miles maybe the range will drop enough to consider it but at that point most of the car will probably be near end of life. Time to pass it on. A lot of people depend on $5,000 cars. The charging infrastructure may work for them at that point.
A lot of folks seem to have anxiety about some breakthrough battery technology in just a few of years. Sure... it will drop the resale value on the MME but one sure way to counter that is to drive the MME as much as possible and extract as much value out of it early in it's life.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Thanks for the info @MachDrive and @Diogenes.
Another key thing to consider is what charging infrastructure will be like in 5-8 years. Plans for it are ambitious enough to easily offset what degradation is expected to be like, so much that it might not be a concern after all, even for longer distance drivers to some extent.
 

·
Registered
Model 3 -> Mach-E First Edition
Joined
·
120 Posts
Thanks for the info @MachDrive and @Diogenes.
Another key thing to consider is what charging infrastructure will be like in 5-8 years. Plans for it are ambitious enough to easily offset what degradation is expected to be like, so much that it might not be a concern after all, even for longer distance drivers to some extent.
Exactly - I'm not convinced that 500 mile ranges are actually needed, with a robust enough high-power DCFC network, those range concerns go away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,087 Posts
Exactly - I'm not convinced that 500 mile ranges are actually needed, with a robust enough high-power DCFC network, those range concerns go away.
In a ironic twist, young kids with their stamina, supple spines, and strong bladders but with smaller wallets will buy inexpensive cars with shorter ranges and stop more often to charge. Old folks like me will buy more expensive, large, and comfortable cars with fatigue reducing autonomous features and longer ranges will stop just as often. The kids will speed past me on the highway, I'll catch them at a charging stop to empty my bladder while they fill their battery. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,570 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
In a ironic twist, young kids with their stamina, supple spines, and strong bladders but with smaller wallets will buy inexpensive cars with shorter ranges and stop more often to charge. Old folks like me will buy more expensive, large, and comfortable cars with fatigue reducing autonomous features and longer ranges will stop just as often. The kids will speed past me on the highway, I'll catch them at a charging stop to empty my bladder while they fill their battery. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
Man, slapped us all with reality, and on New Year’s Day, no less. 😞
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top