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Discussion Starter #21
Tesla canceled Standard Range Model Y trim saying range would be too low.
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Motor Trend did a test of Tesla Model Y in their August issue. Tested was the Long Range Dual Motor AWD priced at $57,190 and the Performance AWD w PUP priced at $70,190. Overall they gave the Model Y good marks and said it‘s a good SUV period. Some quibbles were:
looks too much like a Model 3
the suspension give you gut jiggles and firm kick in the rear on pavement strips and bumps
the steering did not have enough feel for sporty driving on hairpins

Tesla engineers said the ride improves as more load is added.

I had the print article and did not check if the article was available online.
 

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Ok Elon,
1. What happened to making a car that is affordable? Bring back the MY SR.
2. I thought the efficiency of the MY was nearly as good as the M3.
3. Some of us don’t need or want to drag around a huge battery all the time. (My 70 year old mother was going to get the MY SR because the M3 wasn’t big enough for her two big dogs.)
4. What’s the real reason for canceling the SR model?

tia
 

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Just $.02:

There is not enough of a cost savings in batteries in a standard range vs. long range to bring the price down to under $40,000.

However, in the future as battery costs come down, expect a SR at $35,000.

see: Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
 

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Tesla will make a LR/RWD version of the MY. Not as low a target price as the SR, but better than nothing I guess.
There is a completely new entry-level Tesla in the works, lets see if it turns out to be truly affordable.
Don’t expect it too soon, though. they dont want to cannibalize the low-end M3s the way that the MY did the high-end M3s.
 
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Consumer Reports just posted an in depth review of the Model Y.

In CR's opinion there is plenty of room for improvement: Hopefully the MachE will correct some of the glaring problems in the Model Y.

see:


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Discussion Starter #30
I thought you would be interested in this story I found on MSN: Another Tesla Crashes Into a Cop Car While on Autopilot Another Tesla Crashes Into a Cop Car While on Autopilot
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
Gee Officer I just took my hands off the wheel so that I could open my beer
I was never a fan of Tesla's fix-it-later approach along with drivers having too much faith in autopilot

 

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I was never a fan of Tesla's fix-it-later approach along with drivers having too much faith in autopilot

Consumer Reports just posted an in depth review of the Model Y.

In CR's opinion there is plenty of room for improvement: Hopefully the MachE will correct some of the glaring problems in the Model Y.

see:
A great post and one of the reasons I'm glad to be on the Forum. I've been a subscriber to CU for over 50 years and while they have their criteria which are not always mine, they are fair, comprehensive and can run tests that the average person can not.
Some points on the piece that are important for me about the Tesla Y. My son in law was recently in Las Vegas and we're in the middle of the usual July heat wave. I placed my thumb on the door handle to open the lever and was unpleasantly shocked when in the 109 degree heat I thought that I had left the first two layers of skin from my thumb pad on the lever.
I've addressed my dislike for the dash and (my take) that Tesla did it to save money. Over reliance (my take) on the screen for something like adjusting air vents. My Fusion Energi has the Blind Spot on the mirror which is where I am looking when I change lanes and my hope is that the MMe will replicate that feature.
All in all I chose to replace my current Ford with the MMe despite intense pressure from my son on potential "first year issues" and my son in law who wants me to get the Y so he gets the referral points. Also, because I have had over two years of a reliable and comfortable driving experience from a company with whom I have a history and the all important but subjective "It's better lookin factor".
I hope that we get to view something similar when CR tests the Mach E(y)

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Discussion Starter #32
CR did some good reporting. Also J.D. Power not long ago...

"Tesla's quality issues are primarily with cosmetic items, such as paint imperfections, poorly fitting body panels, and squeaks and rattles – rather than core powertrain or infotainment functions. Doug Betts, president of the automotive division at J.D. Power, told CNBC: These are primarily a result of factory quality.Jun 24, 2020"
Tesla ranks lowest on J.D. Power 2020 quality study, 250 ...

Being at the bottom of the pile is never a good thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
more coverage on the Tesla Model Y real-world range numbers

"According to the EPA's website, the Tesla Model Y has 315 miles of range. However, the only Model Y listed is the Performance AWD (dual-motor), which is one of only two versions currently available. The dual-motor all-wheel-drive Long Range Model Y isn't listed. There are not different range ratings for different tire sizes on the EPA's site either.

On Tesla's website, it shows 316 miles for the Tesla Model Y Performance, with "EPA est." in parentheses. Tesla lists the Model Y Performance's range at 291 miles (EPA est.). That is with the newly standard Performance Upgrades package, which includes 21-inch wheels. The Long Range comes standard with 19s."

 

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more coverage on the Tesla Model Y real-world range numbers

"According to the EPA's website, the Tesla Model Y has 315 miles of range. However, the only Model Y listed is the Performance AWD (dual-motor), which is one of only two versions currently available. The dual-motor all-wheel-drive Long Range Model Y isn't listed. There are not different range ratings for different tire sizes on the EPA's site either.

On Tesla's website, it shows 316 miles for the Tesla Model Y Performance, with "EPA est." in parentheses. Tesla lists the Model Y Performance's range at 291 miles (EPA est.). That is with the newly standard Performance Upgrades package, which includes 21-inch wheels. The Long Range comes standard with 19s."

The 21” tires have a 25 mile penalty. More unsprung weight and more roll-resistance.
 

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I do not disagree with you:

But here is the reality as I see it:

Teslas are a known quantity: they are committed to the Model Y. Tesla expects the Model Y to outsell the Model S, X and 3 combined. That would be about 200,000 units per year. Ford has committed to only 50,000 units this year and next of which only 20,000 will be coming to the US.....
I do not disagree with you:

But here is the reality as I see it:

Teslas are a known quantity: they are committed to the Model Y. Tesla expects the Model Y to outsell the Model S, X and 3 combined. That would be about 200,000 units per year. Ford has committed to only 50,000 units this year and next of which only 20,000 will be coming to the US.

The Model Y has a longer range, charges faster and has more advanced technology. The MachE has better styling, will probably have better quality control, but has a shorter range, longer charging time and technology that is several years behind Tesla. Add to that growing pains during first year of production. The 2020 MachE will be "Beta" cars.

I have no intention of buying the First Edition: I intend to lease: the lease on the Model Y as compared to "Option Plan" on the MachE, even after giving consideration to the Federal Tax Credit of $7,500, will be between $200 and $300 less per month.

As I have posted the "Option Plan" monthly payments are not competitive with the lease payments of similarly priced vehicles.

Ford said that from the very first vehicle they intended to make a profit: But that has resulted in a car that is not competitively priced with the industry standard.

How is that going to work?
I think you make good points. I'm in the same position on what to buy. I was for sure in MachE camp as we mostly a Ford family and have liked what we have seen so far with the MachE. Yesterday, we scheduled a test drive for a Model Y and were also able to test drive a Model X. Model X is really out of our price range but being a small business owner, it checks the box for Section 179 (>6,000lbs). That said, my wife hated it and I will have to admit to liking the Model Y better - felt quicker (likely due to less mass), seats seemed more comfortable, etc.. Shocked at what an X can tow though.

I do feel like Ford is going to have some kinks to work out with the MachE and that Tesla has quite the jump technology wise. Of course Tesla seems to have fit/finish issues and a less than stellar service reputation.

There is no compelling reason for me to purchase right now. Maybe I wait for real world reviews of the Mach E. Feels though that to get a MachE as zippy (which was half the fun) as the Model Y I test drove which was the Long Range version, one would have to opt for the GT and wait until next summer. So lean is for a Model Y sooner than later...
 

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I think you make good points. I'm in the same position on what to buy. I was for sure in MachE camp as we mostly a Ford family and have liked what we have seen so far with the MachE. Yesterday, we scheduled a test drive for a Model Y and were also able to test drive a Model X. Model X is really out of our price range but being a small business owner, it checks the box for Section 179 (>6,000lbs). That said, my wife hated it and I will have to admit to liking the Model Y better - felt quicker (likely due to less mass), seats seemed more comfortable, etc.. Shocked at what an X can tow though.

I do feel like Ford is going to have some kinks to work out with the MachE and that Tesla has quite the jump technology wise. Of course Tesla seems to have fit/finish issues and a less than stellar service reputation.

There is no compelling reason for me to purchase right now. Maybe I wait for real world reviews of the Mach E. Feels though that to get a MachE as zippy (which was half the fun) as the Model Y I test drove which was the Long Range version, one would have to opt for the GT and wait until next summer. So lean is for a Model Y sooner than later...
The Mustang Mach-E GT, and the GT Performance, would be comparable to the Model Y Performance LR.

The MMe AWD/ER should be as zippy as the Model Y AWD LR. It may even feel more-so off the line as the MMe has more torque than the MY, despite the 5.5(est) vs 4.8 0-60 times. By the way, the split between those two times (0.7) is pretty minuscule. In fact, it takes you longer to say the word ‘minuscule’.

The proof is in the pudding, so we shall see.
 

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The Mustang Mach-E GT, and the GT Performance, would be comparable to the Model Y Performance LR.

The MMe AWD/ER should be as zippy as the Model Y AWD LR. It may even feel more-so off the line as the MMe has more torque than the MY, despite the 5.5(est) vs 4.8 0-60 times. By the way, the split between those two times (0.7) is pretty minuscule. In fact, it takes you longer to say the word ‘minuscule’.

The proof is in the pudding, so we shall see.
.72 seconds to say miniscule (I timed it). 1.64 seconds to say The proof is in the pudding👨‍🎓
 

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.72 seconds to say miniscule (I timed it). 1.64 seconds to say The proof is in the pudding👨‍🎓
haha! Can't really disagree with you, although my current Explorer ST and Raptor are about in the mid-5 range and neither feels nearly as quick as the Model Y AWD LR did yesterday. But that was my first ride in an EV and as you say, torque.... Odd how the X at 4.4 second felt noticeably slower to all three of us in the car vs. the Y.
 

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My E450 Mercedes has a posted 0-60 time of 4.8 seconds. Never did it, but that's what Mercedes says it can do.

The Model 3 I drove with 0-60 of 4.4 seconds just felt so much quicker.

Silent torque and instantaneous response.

On the other hand the Audi Etron I drove felt slower and less nimble than my E450.

I think Tesla has this "point and shoot" down pretty well. Felt more like my Porsche Boxster except supper quiet.

It will be interesting to see if the ME drives more refined like the Audi Etron or the Model 3 and Boxster.

Hopefully somewhere in between like my E450 which to me is a perfect balance of ride comfort, power, handling and acceleration.

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My E450 Mercedes has a posted 0-60 time of 4.8 seconds. Never did it, but that's what Mercedes says it can do.

The Model 3 I drove with 0-60 of 4.4 seconds just felt so much quicker.

Silent torque and instantaneous response.

On the other hand the Audi Etron I drove felt slower and less nimble than my E450.

I think Tesla has this "point and shoot" down pretty well. Felt more like my Porsche Boxster except supper quiet.

It will be interesting to see if the ME drives more refined like the Audi Etron or the Model 3 and Boxster.

Hopefully somewhere in between like my E450 which to me is a perfect balance of ride comfort, power, handling and acceleration.

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I haven’t pushed a car to its max in 25 years. After the novelty of the swift-kick off the line wears off, I will probably drive the MMe as i do my current car.
 
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