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I have no clue what they need to recoup, but it may be possible.

With the original target of 50,000 at an average selling price of $55,000 (my estimate), that’s $2.75B gross sales. Being they used an already updated factory (way less re-tooling), Ford may be able to cover the initial dev costs, we shall see.

The rumors are they exceeded their expected target (by how many? a most closely guarded secret). The recent price cut equates to approximately an additional 2500 units that need to be sold to make the original gross sales target. I have a feeling they greatly surpassed that, and I’m not counting the expected GT sales.

This is just my SWAG. I am hoping the MMe will be a surprise success story.

Prior to making the MME Ford was making Fiesta's in the Mexican factory and before that trucks.

The only thing the Fiesta has in common with MME are four wheels: Everything else is completely different. The jigs to manufacture the MME were made in the US and had to shipped to Mexico and installed. The assembly line had to be built.

IMO, the MME should have been made in the US. I for one would have paid a premium to have a "Made in USA" BEV. But that is an entirely different story and my opinion was not solicited.

The only thing that was kept was the outside structure and paint facilities.

As to Ford exceeding their MME targets: rumors are nothing more than rumors.

So far no one knows:

  • How many reservations Ford actual received for the MME
  • How many of those reservations have actually been converted into orders
I think many put down $500 to keep their options "open". I also believe many are completely undecided and waiting to see and read:

  • How the reviews are for the MME
  • Actually taking a test drive
  • What financing and/or lease options are available
  • Whether the MME will be sold at a fixed price, MSRP or will dealers be able to discount the MME.
  • What incentives, if any, Ford will be offering
By the end November/beginning of December the first MME should be arriving at dealers as demos. I anticipate the arrival of the First Edition in late January.

I can certainly wait: being too anxious clouds sound judgement!

.
 

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Prior to making the MME Ford was making Fiesta's in the Mexican factory and before that trucks.

The only thing the Fiesta has in common with MME are four wheels: Everything else is completely different. The jigs to manufacture the MME were made in the US and had to shipped to Mexico and installed. The assembly line had to be built.

IMO, the MME should have been made in the US. I for one would have paid a premium to have a "Made in USA" BEV. But that is an entirely different story and my opinion was not solicited.

The only thing that was kept was the outside structure and paint facilities.

As to Ford exceeding their MME targets: rumors are nothing more than rumors.

So far no one knows:

  • How many reservations Ford actual received for the MME
  • How many of those reservations have actually been converted into orders
I think many put down $500 to keep their options "open". I also believe many are completely undecided and waiting to see and read:

  • How the reviews are for the MME
  • Actually taking a test drive
  • What financing and/or lease options are available
  • Whether the MME will be sold at a fixed price, MSRP or will dealers be able to discount the MME.
  • What incentives, if any, Ford will be offering
By the end November/beginning of December the first MME should be arriving at dealers as demos. I anticipate the arrival of the First Edition in late January.

I can certainly wait: being too anxious clouds sound judgement!

.
Hey, at this point, trying to figure this out is just an exercise to keep us occupied. None of my wording in the previous post was definitive, but with much supposition.

The don’t think Ford had to go all scorched-earth at this plant, thats why it was chosen. Unlike the Chicago plant which was so old it was almost a complete rebuild (Chicago cost est at $1B).

In Cuautitlan, the stamping factory, body shop, paint shop and robotics were all redone prior the Fiesta. That is a big chunk of savings. Basically, changing out the tools and die of the presses, adjusting the body-shop’s flexible architecture, and reprogramming the robots is the most to be done here. Even if they had to upgrade some components, its still minimal to a complete overhaul.
The middle of the line most likely saw the most changes, modifying the part where they married the suspension and powertrain to now accommodate the battery and motors.
The finishing part of the line: insertion of dashboard, seats, widgets and whatnot most likely needed tuning as well, but there is nothing special related to EVs here that would require a major re-do.

They did have the expense of building a new battery assembly line and post-build charging testing, though.

So yes, I do think they can pull this off. There is a difference between anxious and optimism.
 

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Hey, at this point, trying to figure this out is just an excercise to keep is occupied. None of my wording in the previous post was definitive, but with much supposition.
100% agreement and a lot of knowledge that I have gained.

But I for one would have loved to brag about "Being built in the USA!" and believe me I am not a flag waver!

(I have craftsmen tools, some 50 plus years old that are still perfect and they were made in the USA)
 

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100% agreement and a lot of knowledge that I have gained.

But I for one would have loved to brag about "Being built in the USA!" and believe me I am not a flag waver!

(I have craftsmen tools, some 50 plus years old that are still perfect and they were made in the USA)
Yes, but the reality is that a trade/tariff war was started that made a US plant less competitive to sell into Europe than Mexico. With only 1 plant and the European market having higher demand for EV's, it made sense to put the plant in Mexico. I am not a flag waiver either, but I would have preferred the plant here too. Ford made a smart business decision under the circumstances.
 

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100% agreement and a lot of knowledge that I have gained.

But I for one would have loved to brag about "Being built in the USA!" and believe me I am not a flag waver!

(I have craftsmen tools, some 50 plus years old that are still perfect and they were made in the USA)
This is why I’m hoping the MMe is a success. I look at it as a gateway to get things started.

As you know, the FORD EVs to be made Stateside in the near future are the electric F150 and Transit. They will be made in upgraded facilities.

If they all do well, this will hopefully lead to more plants for EVs in the U.S. maybe even a battery-cell plant or two.
 

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I'm sure the Mach-E will be successful, its a very attractive car. The only hold up will be production. 2021 looks like a watershed year for EVs with the number of new entrants that are BETTER cars than their ICE competition. Elon Musk welcomes these cars, not as competition for his products, but as complementary competition against ICE cars in a long term goal of electrification. I think he's right and EVs are on a breakthrough path.
 

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Tesla will not lose market share: Expect further price reductions in the US when the MME is introduced:

"Now a new report from Tianfeng Securities is predicting Tesla will lower the price of the Model Y in China when it starts production and deliveries in the country, according to the website Seek Device.

Tianfeng is forecasting a price of 275,000 yuan ($41,000) vs. the current price of $49,990 in the U.S."

see: https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-made-tesla-model-y-153547125.html
 

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Simple question, how many of you looking to become MM E owners would accept a vehicle from Ford with no design updates in years, cabin noise, roofs blowing off, doors filling with water, 'home depot' mounting brackets, paint issues with the explanation for 40-50k "It's getting better" ?
 

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Simple question, how many of you looking to become MM E owners would accept a vehicle from Ford with no design updates in years, cabin noise, roofs blowing off, doors filling with water, 'home depot' mounting brackets, paint issues with the explanation for 40-50k "It's getting better" ?
How many? By the end of this year over a million...
I wonder if Tesla decided to produce a car with normal build quality:

  • How much would Tesla have to slow down their production line to eliminate these quality control issues?
  • Could they raise prices enough to offset the loss of volume?
  • Today the weight is 6 to 8 weeks. If they slowed production down to eliminate these quality control issues would the wait go to 3 to 4 months and would people be willing to wait that long?
Is the average Tesla buyer a "techie" who is used to getting computers that are constantly being upgraded or an auto guy. I think the former and not the latter and that is why Tesla can get away with these quality control issues.

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I wonder if Tesla decided to produce a car with normal build quality:
  • How much would Tesla have to slow down their production line to eliminate these quality control issues?
  • Could they raise prices enough to offset the loss of volume?
  • Today the weight is 6 to 8 weeks. If they slowed production down to eliminate these quality control issues would the wait go to 3 to 4 months and would people be willing to wait that long?
Is the average Tesla buyer a "techie" who is used to getting computers that are constantly being upgraded or an auto guy. I think the former and not the latter and that is why Tesla can get away with these quality control issues.
Why? Simple business decision. They're selling all they can make, most of their customers seem not to care. they have bigger mindshare than any auto manufacturer with NO advertising. While I find this odd and I would never put up with their crap, it doesn't seem to be hurting them.

That all said, there's no reason to believe that MME build quality will be all that great given Ford's past history. Although I'd bet that it's going to be much better than Tesla's . The Explorer launch was a disaster, they have told UAW to get ready for F150 repairs, and they still can't seem to get body panel alignment quite right on ICE Mustangs after all these years.

But here's the big trump card for me... My Ford dealer is less than a 5 mile drive from my house and my wife's office is across the street from them. A loose trim, door gasket, and other minor issues can be addressed with minor inconvenience. The nearest Tesla dealership is an hour's drive away and their mobile technical service is spotty at best according to local owners.
 

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How many? By the end of this year over a million...
A million MM Es? Perhaps you misread the question? I asked the question How many MM E owners would accept vehicles with problems similar to the Tesla's, and since it was a hypothetical it was also rhetorical. I 'sort of' understood when Tesla was for all intents and purposes the 'only show in town' but with more and more potential competition I simply do not understand the mindset that "it's getting better", (keeping in mind that I don't understand many many things). Let me state for the record that I have no stake in how anyone chooses to spend their money (Yugo owners?) and I understand that Musk must produce numbers if the automobile arm of his companies is to survive but after eight years I can't grasp that 'fit and finish' is still an issue. IJMO/ICBW
 

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While you enjoy bashing Tesla, where issues have improved, don't be smug about legacy OEM quality; brake failure, fit and finish of C8 Corvette; Ford eco-boost engine failures; Chevy Bolt battery fires; Polestar 2 total shutdowns, other computer glitches and rattles; etc., etc. All companies have issues with new models. Tesla is doing just fine on the "survive" issue with exponential growth. It's ICE Manufacturers that should worry. There is a paradigm shift now where up coming new cars are joining Tesla in being better cars than their ICE counterparts at competitive pricing. The very attractive Mach-E is a good start, but Ford has a long way to go.

I have no doubt that next fall after a Covid hiatus, when I make a final choice between Model Y. Mach-E, or Q4 Etron, I'll be able to make the choice on the merits of each car with about equal risk of problems on the delivered car.
 

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Just found this post on the Audi Etron forum: It raises a point I never thought of and a possible explanation for Tesla obsession with quantity over quality:

"Unfortunately, there is a disincentive for Tesla to focus on quality. The company is actually a Financial Energy Credit company. It has never turned a profit based on car sales. The cars are sold at a loss. Any profit has been due to the selling of energy credits it receives for being an all EV company. The number of credits it receives is based on the volume of cars it sells. Other car companies buy these credits to off set emission penalties. As long as people are willing to deal with terrible quality, Tesla will focus on churning out as many cars as it can, regardless of quality. "
 

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How many? By the end of this year over a million..
Tesla expects to have sold over 1.2 million vehicles since it started production in 2015. Thats an impressive number for a new company.

In the next year or two, as more plants come online, they should take this time to slow the lines to do better QC, and revamp Fremont.

As for Ford, they build almost as many F150 in a single year than Tesla has manufactured cars in its entire history. We (the consumer) need Ford and other legacy manufacturers to embrace the EV trend to shatter the 3% EV market share ceiling here in the US. They have the manufacturing might, time to stop with one foot in the water and dive in the pool.
 

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Just found this post on the Audi Etron forum: It raises a point I never thought of and a possible explanation for Tesla obsession with quantity over quality:

"Unfortunately, there is a disincentive for Tesla to focus on quality. The company is actually a Financial Energy Credit company. It has never turned a profit based on car sales. The cars are sold at a loss. Any profit has been due to the selling of energy credits it receives for being an all EV company. The number of credits it receives is based on the volume of cars it sells. Other car companies buy these credits to off set emission penalties. As long as people are willing to deal with terrible quality, Tesla will focus on churning out as many cars as it can, regardless of quality. "
Yes, if there Energy Credits dry up, then they will have an income shortage. Without these credits, They wouldn’t have any profit in any quarter of their existence.

That strategy may backfire, once they saturate the consumer-base willing to accept poor quality at such an expensive price-point.

Tesla also rushing to finish their other factories to beat all the upcoming competition to market. There soon will be too many affordable EVs scrounging for EU customers. In the US, its an uphill battle against ICE, but for the rest of the world? Act now or go home.
 

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While you enjoy bashing Tesla, where issues have improved, don't be smug about legacy OEM quality; brake failure, fit and finish of C8 Corvette; Ford eco-boost engine failures; Chevy Bolt battery fires; Polestar 2 total shutdowns, other computer glitches and rattles; etc., etc. All companies have issues with new models. Tesla is doing just fine on the "survive" issue with exponential growth. It's ICE Manufacturers that should worry. There is a paradigm shift now where up coming new cars are joining Tesla in being better cars than their ICE counterparts at competitive pricing. The very attractive Mach-E is a good start, but Ford has a long way to go.

I have no doubt that next fall after a Covid hiatus, when I make a final choice between Model Y. Mach-E, or Q4 Etron, I'll be able to make the choice on the merits of each car with about equal risk of problems on the delivered car.
Again, calling out Tesla on quality is not bashing. It is NOT okay for them to deliver vehicles to customers the way they are. And we have all called out Ford and others for their issues, or have you not read any of the many posts regarding marketing, dealer training, etc?

I am of the mindset: We keep score in sports. There are winners and losers. You don’t get a trophy just for participation. And if you didn’t give something your all? There is no pat on the back saying “good job, its okay you just did mediocre”.
Heck No, if you failed, practice more and do better. Learn from your mistakes and stop making them. You will be better-off for it in the long run.

I close by saying: if Ford FUBARs anything with the MMe, there is not one person on this forum that will be kind to Ford. We are equal opportunity critics.
 

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Just found this post on the Audi Etron forum: It raises a point I never thought of and a possible explanation for Tesla obsession with quantity over quality:

"Unfortunately, there is a disincentive for Tesla to focus on quality. The company is actually a Financial Energy Credit company. It has never turned a profit based on car sales. The cars are sold at a loss. Any profit has been due to the selling of energy credits it receives for being an all EV company. The number of credits it receives is based on the volume of cars it sells. Other car companies buy these credits to off set emission penalties. As long as people are willing to deal with terrible quality, Tesla will focus on churning out as many cars as it can, regardless of quality. "
I think that you might do a deeper dive into Tesla's balance sheet. Their margins on cars are higher than just about anyone in the industry, They are spending a great deal on expansion, research, and implementation of new technology, batteries, i.e., to further reduce manufacturing costs. The credits are gravy, not fundamental to profit generation. Mercedes Chairman recently said our goal is profit for shareholders. Musk repeatedly says that the goal of Tesla is to convert the world to sustainable energy. Selling EVs and all of the other Tesla products are aimed at that goal. He is a cheerleader for the success of other EV makers. Unfortunately they are years behind in battery technology and infrastructure. Old time Wall Street automobile analysts don't understand Tesla's business model.

"Terrible quality" and "churning out as many cars as it can, regardless of quality" are a bit out of date, today.
 

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I think that you might do a deeper dive into Tesla's balance sheet. Their margins on cars are higher than just about anyone in the industry, They are spending a great deal on expansion, research, and implementation of new technology, batteries, i.e., to further reduce manufacturing costs. The credits are gravy, not fundamental to profit generation. Mercedes Chairman recently said our goal is profit for shareholders. Musk repeatedly says that the goal of Tesla is to convert the world to sustainable energy. Selling EVs and all of the other Tesla products are aimed at that goal. He is a cheerleader for the success of other EV makers. Unfortunately they are years behind in battery technology and infrastructure. Old time Wall Street automobile analysts don't understand Tesla's business model.

"Terrible quality" and "churning out as many cars as it can, regardless of quality" are a bit out of date, today.
I agree. Tesla is well positioned and cars aren't their only thing by far. My Y has been built and I'm looking forward to getting it in a couple of weeks. Might be some flaws that need to be corrected, but I'm confident they will be figured out. My '20 Explorer ST (being traded in for the Y) yesterday gave me yet another Sync error so I couldn't use my phone to make a call... Ford is going to have to figure out Sync 4 and catch up to Tesla in this area IMHO. This is one of the reasons why I cancelled my Mach E order and decided to move on the Y. Sad given my last several vehicles have all been Ford's and I'm a fan. Of course the battery technology and charging network is a whole another commentary... I hope the Mach E is a huge success for Ford and in 2022 I hope to decide to get an EV F-150 or go to a Cybertruck (currently have a Raptor).
 
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