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Discussion Starter #1
This photo was shared by a Ford dealer in Colorado that gives us a full timeline from reservation to delivery for the Mustang Mach-E.

Spring 2020 - Order confirmation for reservation holders
Summer 2020 - Charging options commincate charging options
Fall 2020 - Vehicle production and test drives
Winder 2020-2021 - First deliveries start

 

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Looks like charging option info is coming in the summer. I wonder what Ford will offer. Will home chargers be free with purchase? Or will they be extra?
 

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Looks like charging option info is coming in the summer. I wonder what Ford will offer. Will home chargers be free with purchase? Or will they be extra?
Yes, the Ford Mobile Charger is included and, based on details provided by Ford, seems to be very nice indeed:


On the same page, you can also read about the optional Ford Connected Charge Station. While I'm sure it's also very nice, it really doesn't seem to be necessary unless you have a situation where you'd like to be able to leave multiple chargers plugged in at various locations, or if you prefer to leave the included charger in the trunk for use at RV parks or whatever.
 

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I have a 240V and 50 amp breaker already installed. I am thinking about the charging stations imply because I would like to keep one in the trunk so I never leave home without it. In the past I had a 2015 Fusion energy. The 240 volt cord plus that 110 adapter cost me I think over $600.00 I like that this one comes free but I would like to know the cost of buying an extra one or the charging station with its fancy lights
 

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Looks like charging option info is coming in the summer. I wonder what Ford will offer. Will home chargers be free with purchase? Or will they be extra?
I understand the 120/240v plug/cord will be provided. You can have a 240v dryer plug installed by an electrician in your garage to get 22mi/h. The upgrade will be a wall charger at 48 amps. If you want this have the electrician install it with 50 amp service. This will probably cost around $500 plan installation and be good for 33mi/h. The 22 mi/h will be sufficient for most the only question is do you want to spend the extra $500 for the charger to get the extra speed and have the cable as a backup when you travel
 

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I have a question. Charging at home is obvious best choice. I am no math wiz but I am trying to figure out the real cost of charging like with Ev America on a long trip. EV charges 0.70 per minute. The first edition gets 270 miles to a full charge. Ford says you can get 47 miles for 10 minutes. By my math which has to be WAY off it would cost more to buy electricity then gas which I know is false. Can someone please do the math correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Great graphic, thanks for sharing. Remember too on charging that any J1772 charger will work. I'll be keeping my Mobile Charger in the trunk and using the charger I already have on my house for nightly charging.
That's definitely a smart move.
 

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I have a question. Charging at home is obvious best choice. I am no math wiz but I am trying to figure out the real cost of charging like with Ev America on a long trip. EV charges 0.70 per minute. The first edition gets 270 miles to a full charge. Ford says you can get 47 miles for 10 minutes. By my math which has to be WAY off it would cost more to buy electricity then gas which I know is false. Can someone please do the math correctly.
My math (if I'm using the right assumptions) came up in the same result. The ElectrifyAmerica map shows $0.89/min in my state for 0-350 kw (which sounds like we'd use to get to the Mach-e's 150 max). Probably only need a public charging station for a long trip refuel, so let's says a 45 minute refuel. At Ford's estimate (47 miles each 10 mins @ 150 kw), that's 211 miles. 45 mins x $0.89 = $40. (Plus a $1 session charge.)

In a 25 MPG gas vehicle, 211 miles is 8.4 gallons. At $3.00/gal that's $25.

Of course, most of the time we're charging at home in the garage (otherwise one probably shouldn't be buying a BEV). So public charging should be rare. And maybe there's better pricing to be had than ElectrifyAmerica's rates. Looks like we kinda get screwed at the 150 kw rate, being much higher than the cheaper 125 rate but at the low end of the 350 rate. Hopefully more competition will drive those prices down in the coming years.

For now, I think I'll ditch any ideas of using the Mach-e for long trips and just plan to drive my ICE vehicle on those.
 

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EA is definitely not a great cost option. I charge nightly at home and add about $20 a month to my electric bill. You will want to avoid anything like EA other then for trips. And you are dead on that with their current pricing tiers, 150kw ends up being a bad rate. Not only that, but you really only get the 150 charging rate at the lower levels of the battery. The more it charges, the more that rate drops.
 

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It surprised me to see them charge per minute rather than per kWh. Not sure if they think per-kWh is too confusing for people, or if they just know they can get away with more with those tiered per-minute rates. Or both.

It's inherently unfair to charge the same price for 50 kWh of electricity as they do for 100 kWh, as they're doing if one car charges at a 150 max rate and the other a 300 max rate.

Again, these are things competition should correct when there's more consumer demand that can justify more stations competing. Right now it's nearly a monopoly, since there's few stations outside of cities along interstates (which is the only place they're really needed for people that normally home-charge).
 

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It surprised me to see them charge per minute rather than per kWh. Not sure if they think per-kWh is too confusing for people, or if they just know they can get away with more with those tiered per-minute rates. Or both.
It's inherently unfair to charge the same price for 50 kWh of electricity as they do for 100 kWh, as they're doing if one car charges at a 150 max rate and the other a 300 max rate.
Actually in over 20 states they are prohibited by Public Utility Commissions or state regulations / laws from re-selling electricity by the KWH and must charge by time.
I do think ElectrifyAmerica's rates per minute are really high though and need different power / rate change points.
 

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Actually in over 20 states they are prohibited by Public Utility Commissions or state regulations / laws from re-selling electricity by the KWH and must charge by time.
I do think ElectrifyAmerica's rates per minute are really high though and need different power / rate change points.
Really? I wonder what their justification for that is? It'll have to read up on that one. Seems crazy.

It certainly makes sense that public charging stations charge more than home rates. It's not cheap to set up charging stations, point-of-sale processing, run high capcity power lines, etc. And turn a reasonable profit. I have no problem pricing accordingly. But using time (and these 3 tiers) doesn't seem like a sensible index to me.
 

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Actually in over 20 states they are prohibited by Public Utility Commissions or state regulations / laws from re-selling electricity by the KWH and must charge by time.
I do think ElectrifyAmerica's rates per minute are really high though and need different power / rate change points.
I talked to electrify America and what they said was the cost fir the middle tier is 0.69. It charges at a rate of 9 miles per minute. So therefore 211 miles would take 23 minutes. At 0.69 that is $15.87 plus $1.00 fee equals $17.00
 

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I talked to electrify America and what they said was the cost fir the middle tier is 0.69. It charges at a rate of 9 miles per minute. So therefore 211 miles would take 23 minutes. At 0.69 that is $15.87 plus $1.00 fee equals $17.00
Is that what they said the charging rate is specifically for the Mach-e? (At just 125 kW, no less, rather than the 150 max?) Or is that a generic rate they quoted (probably for a car with faster-charging batteries)? The charging rate is different for each model.

Ford says 4.7 miles per minute at 150 kW for the Mach-e. Seems odd that Ford would quote a much worse rate for their vehicle.

P..S. You can see the EA's rates for each station on their website, under "Locate a charger". They map each station and you can click on any of them to see the rates.
 

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They said the cost with all 3 levels comes out the same just the time to charge is different. The 0.69 rate is the middle one and it is based on having the $4.00 per month subscription plan. Yes charges in different areas can be different but this was based on their average across at the medium speed. The speed is determined by the age of the battery, weather and what the car allows. It is one charger and it determines the rate.
It is set up similar to Apple. A credit card is linked to the app. The app has a wallet that has from $5.00 to $100.00. Once the wallet hits $5.00 then it automatically takes money from the card to put back in the wallet. He knew nothing about the Mach E but based it on the average EV and the middle price because that is what is used the most. The fast one charges at 22 miles per minute.
 

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The 4.7 might be the lowest charging speed. I talked to them through chat on their website. It took awhile to get through the legal stuff because I told them that I was trying to budget. It took 20 minutes to get them to open up and agree this was all ballpark and just trying to get an idea. So the 9 miles per minute is based on the middle level for the average car. I did the math with them through chat to make sure I understood. There is also a $.40 charge for being plugged in after your car is charged up. Their app tells you when it will be charged. Also the actual flow rate can change from the fastest to the middle and back again based on usage in that specific network and weather blah blah.
 

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9 miles per minute is way more than I'm seeing elsewhere for most BEVs (actually ANY BEV), and way different than Ford saying 4.7 miles/min for the Mach-e. I'm puzzled at that rate because other resources don't support it.

You're right that the charging rate varies by a lot of factors, like vehicle, weather, and battery age. As well as how full the battery is. The charge rate slows dramatically above 80%, which is why the typical measure is for charging in the 20-80% range. Here's a good website I found that list those stats for various BEVs. Unfortunately the Mach-e isn't on there yet, but you can see most of the others. Like for instance the Kia e-Niro that shows 5.33 miles/min @ 150kW, or 3.33 miles/min at 50kW. Or the 2015 Leaf at 3.1 miles/min @ 50kW. Or the I-PACE at 5.1 miles/min @ 150kW, or 2.57 miles/min @ 50kW.


The 4.7 miles/min rate Ford is advertising for the Mach-e is in the similar range as those others @150kW. How they come up with 9 miles/min at the middle rate is puzzling.
 

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I am just going by what they are saying. They made it clear it also depends on what the car is designed to do. My ONLY thought is that every manufacturer EXCEPT Tesla produces these cars as a throw away car to keep the EPA happy. Ford in the video stated that Hyundai told dealers to NOT sell their Ev Because they lost $1400 on EVERY unit. Maybe their batteries are inferior??? I don’t know. My suggestion is for someone to do what I did and chat with them. Now mine is based on the Central Valley in California where it is only cold in the middle of the night and that is about 40 most of the time.
 

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I also think Ford is going to be VERY CONSERVATIVE. several years ago I had a plug 2015 fusion energy. Ford had to refund money to me because the advertised miles per gallon were not close. Also after about 2 years the mileage kept decreasing. I kept it charged to the max 17 miles every day. I went from getting 75 miles per gallon in town to about 50. Still great but not as much. Ford HAS to get this right. They are going to be as cautious as possible. Also since the car does not technically exist it is an unknown. We were going by their averages.
 
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