[Cowherd.J]

Automotive News is reporting that Ford has plans on building a new EV in their Cologne Germany plant.

Ford picks German plant to build new EV, reports say

The automaker will invest 1 billion euros ($1.2 billion) into the factory, which will build a mass-market electric car based on a VW Group architecture.

europe.autonews.com

 

[ChasingCoral]

Automotive News is reporting that Ford has plans on building a new EV in their Cologne Germany plant.

Ford picks German plant to build new EV, reports say

The automaker will invest 1 billion euros ($1.2 billion) into the factory, which will build a mass-market electric car based on a VW Group architecture.

europe.autonews.com

The story is behind a paywall.

 

[jolteon]

Automotive News is reporting that Ford has plans on building a new EV in their Cologne Germany plant.

Ford picks German plant to build new EV, reports say

The automaker will invest 1 billion euros ($1.2 billion) into the factory, which will build a mass-market electric car based on a VW Group architecture.

europe.autonews.com

This is a great step forward. I keep hoping Ford will go all-in with VW on small EVs, and the next Escape/Bronco Sport etc. will be MEB based BEVs, and Ford can focus their own efforts on larger SUVs and trucks on their own BEV platforms.

 

[MachDrive]

This is a great step forward. I keep hoping Ford will go all-in with VW on small EVs, and the next Escape/Bronco Sport etc. will be MEB based BEVs, and Ford can focus their own efforts on larger SUVs and trucks on their own BEV platforms.

I believe the exact opposite.

I wouldn’t say all-in, maybe for the near-term. Its competitive suicide to become dependent on another company for what is basically the entire car. No matter what Ford does with it, it will just be considered a ‘re-skinned VW’.

If they make it super-lux, people will say “why pay more for the Ford, you can just get the VW.”

If they make it more-affordable, people will say “just pay a little more and get the VW version.”

Ford loses out either way. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

 

[jolteon]

I believe the exact opposite.

I wouldn’t say all-in, maybe for the near-term. Its competitive suicide to become dependent on another company for what is basically the entire car. No matter what Ford does with it, it will just be considered a ‘re-skinned VW’.

If they make it super-lux, people will say “why pay more for the Ford, you can just get the VW.”

If they make it more-affordable, people will say “just pay a little more and get the VW version.”

Ford loses out either way. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

Ford already lost by signing with VW. If they had a better internal option, they'd have taken it. MEB was already a sign of defeat. Embrace it, go all in, every Ford smaller than Edge gets replaced with a MEB-based BEV, every Ford larger gets replaced by a Ford-based BEV. Have VW buy in, and have every VW larger than Tiguan get replaced by a Ford-based BEV as well.

Split the passenger car market by size, Ford can own the BEV platform for the large cars, VW for the small.

Any delay to the phase-out of ICE is unacceptable to me as a customer of Ford. I want to see them swallow their pride, and end engines by any means necessary, even if that means closer ties to VW.

 

[MachDrive]

Ford already lost by signing with VW. If they had a better internal option, they'd have taken it. MEB was already a sign of defeat. Embrace it, go all in, every Ford smaller than Edge gets replaced with a MEB-based BEV, every Ford larger gets replaced by a Ford-based BEV. Have VW buy in, and have every VW larger than Tiguan get replaced by a Ford-based BEV as well.

Split the passenger car market by size, Ford can own the BEV platform for the large cars, VW for the small.

Any delay to the phase-out of ICE is unacceptable to me as a customer of Ford. I want to see them swallow their pride, and end engines by any means necessary, even if that means closer ties to VW.

Like I said, in the near-term. For the long-game, it benefits them to be on their own platform.

The MMe is roughly the same size as the Escape and Bronco Sport. It only makes sense to keep developing the architecture beyond the MMe. rumor is the Fusion is coming with these underpinnings.

That leaves the Mustang Coupe, which needs more performance than the MEB delivers. Or a reinterpretation of the Focus/Fiesta/EcoSport, which is completely in the realm of MEB.

 

[Cowherd.J]

The story is behind a paywall.

Here's another article that's not behind a paywall.

Report: VW-based Ford electric vehicle will be built in Germany

Ford is planning to assemble a mass-market EV for Europe, based on VW's platform, at its Cologne plant, according to a report.

www.greencarreports.com

 

[ReturnOfTheMack]

The InsideEVs podcast talks about this new EV being built in Germany. It starts at the 1:18:18 mark. They think this is going to be European exclusive vehicle.

 

[jolteon]

The InsideEVs podcast talks about this new EV being built in Germany. It starts at the 1:18:18 mark. They think this is going to be European exclusive vehicle.

Hopefully not, but it would not at all surprise me for them to focus on Europe for anything small, fun, and desirable (they get the Puma while we get the EcoSport, etc.)

I really think there's potential for Ford to lean in to MEB and bring out a next-gen Bronco Sport and Escape off of it for the US market, ditch the current gas models altogether.

 

[MachDrive]

Hopefully not, but it would not at all surprise me for them to focus on Europe for anything small, fun, and desirable (they get the Puma while we get the EcoSport, etc.)

I really think there's potential for Ford to lean in to MEB and bring out a next-gen Bronco Sport and Escape off of it for the US market, ditch the current gas models altogether.

Ford has already stated it is only for the EU market.

I believe Ford is only using the MEB as a bridge platform while it gets its own off the ground. No one likes to rely on another’s technology for too long, it is competitive suicide.

As an example, would you, as a customer, pay more for the Ford version because of its packaging? Or would you assume it would have to be cheaper than VW because it was ‘just’ a Ford? Outside of saving development time and meeting EU mandates, It’s lose-lose for Ford here.

 

[jolteon]

Ford has already stated it is only for the EU market.

I believe Ford is only using the MEB as a bridge platform while it gets its own off the ground. No one likes to rely on another’s technology for too long, it is competitive suicide.

As an example, would you, as a customer, pay more for the Ford version because of its packaging? Or would you assume it would have to be cheaper than VW because it was ‘just’ a Ford? Outside of saving development time and meeting EU mandates, It’s lose-lose for Ford here.

I don't believe that's true, for the reason that Ford has a long history of successful non-temporary partnerships.

The 10-speed transmission in the F-150 is the exact same 10-speed transmission in the Silverado. Ford and GM jointly developed them, so both sides can save money through increased scale. They build them in their own plants, but they are the same design. By doubling the volume of what either could do alone, they spread the design costs out far better.

Ford using MEB can be the same. Ford provides increased scale on VW components, saving VW money, and Ford avoids having to engineer a compact EV platform, saving Ford money.

It's win-win for Ford and for VW to split up EV platforms, Ford using MEB, and perhaps VW can use one of Ford's EV platforms.

 

[MachDrive]

It's win-win for Ford and for VW to split up EV platforms, Ford using MEB, and perhaps VW can use something else of Ford's.

The 10-speed was a joint development, the MEB is straight-out licensing.

The big question is if Ford is going to use the entire MEB skateboard? Or just the battery and electronics? Is Ford going to have its own engines, or use the exact same units as the VW?
In the InsideEV podcast, they even say it is hard to find distinction between vehicles sharing the same platform.

A big reason I think the MEB licensing is only for the short term is because Ford did the same thing when Hybrids first came out. They licensed the Prius tech from Toyota. In the meantime, they designed their own and switched over a few years later. I will be surprised if the MEB licensing extends beyond one car lifecycle.

 

[jolteon]

The 10-speed was a joint development, the MEB is straight-out licensing.

The big question is if Ford is going to use the entire MEB skateboard? Or just the battery and electronics? Is Ford going to have its own engines, or use the exact same units as the VW?
In the InsideEV podcast, they even say it is hard to find distinction between vehicles sharing the same platform.

A big reason I think the MEB licensing is only for the short term is because Ford did the same thing when Hybrids first came out. They licensed the Prius tech from Toyota. In the meantime, they designed their own and switched over a few years later. I will be surprised if the MEB licensing extends beyond one car lifecycle.

Which is why I'm saying a trade of licensing makes more sense.

I would be surprised if the Ford MEB does not last beyond one car lifecycle. It'd be a tremendous waste to do all the work to integrate MEB into a Ford plant, make Ford parts work with VWs, and then throw them all away.

Lets say it saves 50% of the engineering of a new platform to license MEB. So in your scenario, Ford should pay 150% of the cost of a new platform by using MEB as a stop-gap and then quickly simultaneously designing a replacement for it? All while VW and Ford have a strategic global partnership that is seeing Ford develop pickups for Volkswagen and Volkswagen develop cargo vans for Ford?

Also, let's get it straight that Ford did not license Toyota's hybrid parts like they're licensing MEB. Ford has a patent sharing agreement with Toyota, as Ford's in-house system was too close to Toyota's patents, and Toyota wanted to use some Ford patents they hadn't found a workaround for either. There was no part sharing, no part purchasing. All Ford hybrids have been Ford-designed.

 

[Addos]

I am confused why the Mach E platform would take that much alteration to scale into smaller BEVs. Maybe I am missing something? And if there were so much to gain from using MEB in the first place, why bother building their own platform for Mach E, and not just license that too?

 

[FRestly]

The 10-speed was a joint development, the MEB is straight-out licensing.

The big question is if Ford is going to use the entire MEB skateboard? Or just the battery and electronics? Is Ford going to have its own engines, or use the exact same units as the VW?
In the InsideEV podcast, they even say it is hard to find distinction between vehicles sharing the same platform.

A big reason I think the MEB licensing is only for the short term is because Ford did the same thing when Hybrids first came out. They licensed the Prius tech from Toyota. In the meantime, they designed their own and switched over a few years later. I will be surprised if the MEB licensing extends beyond one car lifecycle.

MachDrive,

"Is Ford going to have its own engines, or use the exact same units as the VW?"

You need to come to grips with the terminology. Internal Combustion Engine (or any other type of engine) runs on fuel.
The MEB uses electric motors, not engines.

 

[MachDrive]

MachDrive,

"Is Ford going to have its own engines, or use the exact same units as the VW?"

You need to come to grips with the terminology. Internal Combustion Engine (or any other type of engine) runs on fuel.
The MEB uses electric motors, not engines.

It not a matter of coming to grips, just old habits.
My question remains unanswered as to whether Ford will be making its own motors or not.