[Diogenes]

Darren Palmer should just STFU until MME notably demonstrates its build quality.
The new Explorer has had 10 recalls in a year! This is like an F student calling another kid stupid.

Ford throws shade at Tesla over quality, calls its electric vehicles a 'compromise' - Electrek

The head of Ford’s electrification effort has thrown some serious shade at Tesla over quality issues and promises that you won’t have to make that compromise with Ford’s electric vehicles. Darren Palmer, one of the original members of Ford’s Edison team tasked to design the brand’s first...

electrek.co

 

[MachDrive]

Darren Palmer should just STFU until MME notably demonstrates its build quality.
The new Explorer has had 10 recalls in a year! This is like an F student calling another kid stupid.

Ford throws shade at Tesla over quality, calls its electric vehicles a 'compromise' - Electrek

The head of Ford’s electrification effort has thrown some serious shade at Tesla over quality issues and promises that you won’t have to make that compromise with Ford’s electric vehicles. Darren Palmer, one of the original members of Ford’s Edison team tasked to design the brand’s first...

electrek.co

Yes. He should be careful with his statements. With thousands of parts, things could have issues. Especially with a first year.

It should be noted that he never mentions Tesla by name. Only saying that the MMe shouldn’t have quality issues as experienced by other brands. And everything mentioned has to do with assembly.

While thats all well and good, I am more interested with how well that quality control carries into the motors and batteries. I know they want the MMe to be a success, so I hope this translates into quality control measures vastly exceeding everything they’ve done before.

 

[JTK44]

Darren Palmer should just STFU until MME notably demonstrates its build quality.
The new Explorer has had 10 recalls in a year! This is like an F student calling another kid stupid.

Ford throws shade at Tesla over quality, calls its electric vehicles a 'compromise' - Electrek

The head of Ford’s electrification effort has thrown some serious shade at Tesla over quality issues and promises that you won’t have to make that compromise with Ford’s electric vehicles. Darren Palmer, one of the original members of Ford’s Edison team tasked to design the brand’s first...

electrek.co

Yes. He should be careful with his statements. With thousands of parts, things could have issues. Especially with a first year.

It should be noted that he never mentions Tesla by name. Only saying that the MMe shouldn’t have quality issues as experienced by other brands. And everything mentioned has to do with assembly.

While thats all well and good, I am more interested with how well that quality control carries into the motors and batteries. I know they want the MMe to be a success, so I hope this translates into quality control measures vastly exceeding everything they’ve done before.

If I read your posts correctly you both suggest and want to "wait and see":

How does that square with buying the MME and keeping the MME for 8 to 10 years or as other have posted for 200,000 miles?

Assuming there is a competitive lease for the MME, isn't it far more logical to lease and if the MME does not hold up, you are out in three years, or if the MME does hold up just buy it at the end of the lease.

I agree with you: this is a brand new model, Ford has had 10 recalls on their last new model the Explorer, and there will be growing pains and corrections along the way - and no one knows if they will be minor or major.

Food for thought!

 

[Diogenes]

If I read your posts correctly you both suggest and want to "wait and see":

How does that square with buying the MME and keeping the MME for 8 to 10 years or as other have posted for 200,000 miles?

Assuming there is a competitive lease for the MME, isn't it far more logical to lease and if the MME does not hold up, you are out in three years, or if the MME does hold up just buy it at the end of the lease.

I agree with you: this is a brand new model, Ford has had 10 recalls on their last new model the Explorer, and there will be growing pains and corrections along the way - and no one knows if they will be minor or major.

Food for thought!

My thought is this...

The Auto industry still produces lemons or just plain bad cars these days but for the most part they're much improved and most cars are reliable enough to a point where it's not as an important consideration for me vs driving dynamics.
I'll say again:

• A car that I enjoy driving that's in the shop for unscheduled repair/maintenance a couple of days a year sucks for those two days.
• A car that I don't enjoy driving that never breaks down sucks every day of the year.

It remains to be seen what the fit and finish of the MME will be but in terms of the battery/power train, there just isn't a whole lot of difference at this point vs many BEVs and I expect Ford to be no better/worse than the competition. The permanent magnet induction motors used in the MME have been refined for a 100 years and really... they're nothing special. The drive circuits, switching regulator MOSFET controls too have been around forever with each generation getting higher levels of integration. When I worked in the auto industry, there were tons of engineers who were motor controls experts (conveyers, machining inlines, etc use a LOT of motors). Think washing machines... very rarely does the motor ever go bad.... it's not even the motor drive... it's the stupid digital control panel... but I digress... net... battery/power train... no better/worse than others. So that leaves everything else. Well if the MME is as crappy as the MY, the Ford dealership is across the street from my wife's office. So that leaves some systemic, chronic issue... that's where I'm willing to take a chance.

 

[MachDrive]

If I read your posts correctly you both suggest and want to "wait and see":

How does that square with buying the MME and keeping the MME for 8 to 10 years or as other have posted for 200,000 miles?

Assuming there is a competitive lease for the MME, isn't it far more logical to lease and if the MME does not hold up, you are out in three years, or if the MME does hold up just buy it at the end of the lease.

I agree with you: this is a brand new model, Ford has had 10 recalls on their last new model the Explorer, and there will be growing pains and corrections along the way - and no one knows if they will be minor or major.

Food for thought!

I’m still buying one regardless. If no lease is available, i will just finance.

I have had good luck for the last 16 years with Ford, with minimal recalls. And the few recalls that happened were addressed when I went in for scheduled maintenance.

I expect my experience here will be the same. Having seen multiple units, I have no doubt build quality out of the gate will be good. Of course, there may be some unforeseen issue down the line.

Yes the launch of the 2020 Explorer was a debacle, forcing Ford to delay delivery to customers while it fixed assembly issues.
On the other hand: Ford’s tight production controls have identified and limited 8 of the 10 recalls to specific production runs. One of these recalls is only for 17 vehicles, others identified for a specific day or week.
The two big recalls stem from parts purchased from a third-party supplier, and extend across other Ford models. A defective rear-view camera, and a recliner mechanism not built to spec. These two affect over 600k vehicles each.

This is where the extensive dealership/ service centers come in to play. They can address these recalls in short order.

If Tesla had a recall affecting all its 500k units produced this year, it would cripple their support network. This is a big reason Tesla gives so much push-back when potential recalls come up.

Besides quality concerns, this is another major factor in why I chose the MMe over the MY. To me, quality and the ability to get my car easily repaired greatly outweighs the Tesla supercharger network.

 

[Jhalkias]

Darren Palmer should just STFU until MME notably demonstrates its build quality.
The new Explorer has had 10 recalls in a year! This is like an F student calling another kid stupid.

Ford throws shade at Tesla over quality, calls its electric vehicles a 'compromise' - Electrek

The head of Ford’s electrification effort has thrown some serious shade at Tesla over quality issues and promises that you won’t have to make that compromise with Ford’s electric vehicles. Darren Palmer, one of the original members of Ford’s Edison team tasked to design the brand’s first...

electrek.co

I'm fine with the bravado. I think Ford has enough riding on this that those mistakes won't be made, or allowed to be made. For one, I am GLAD to hear a Ford Exec make these claims. I want him to back it up.

 

[FISHEV]

Darren Palmer should just STFU

Everything he said about Tesla was true and why I'm upgrading to the MachE. The windows, which must retract 1" to open the car freeze shut. The door handles freeze shut. I had to spend $500 on putting PPF and mudflaps on due to paint quality issues on the rocker covers. Adaptive cruise has phantom braking issues. Lane keeping doesn't. Blind spot is blind ($1,300 Rydeen system and SumaPerformance side mirrors to see blind spot). No rear cross traffic alert. No auto braking in reverse. No 360 view as not enough cams. Can't go to a car wash or it will lock up inside the wash. No "Snow mode" to cut back on regen in snow/ice.

Those "hidden" issues were a huge disappointment in $52k "high tech" car.

 

[acentre]

I’m still buying one regardless. If no lease is available, i will just finance.

I have had good luck for the last 16 years with Ford, with minimal recalls. And the few recalls that happened were addressed when I went in for scheduled maintenance.

I expect my experience here will be the same. Having seen multiple units, I have no doubt build quality out of the gate will be good. Of course, there may be some unforeseen issue down the line.

Yes the launch of the 2020 Explorer was a debacle, forcing Ford to delay delivery to customers while it fixed assembly issues.
On the other hand: Ford’s tight production controls have identified and limited 8 of the 10 recalls to specific production runs. One of these recalls is only for 17 vehicles, others identified for a specific day or week.
The two big recalls stem from parts purchased from a third-party supplier, and extend across other Ford models. A defective rear-view camera, and a recliner mechanism not built to spec. These two affect over 600k vehicles each.

This is where the extensive dealership/ service centers come in to play. They can address these recalls in short order.

If Tesla had a recall affecting all its 500k units produced this year, it would cripple their support network. This is a big reason Tesla gives so much push-back when potential recalls come up.

Besides quality concerns, this is another major factor in why I chose the MMe over the MY. To me, quality and the ability to get my car easily repaired greatly outweighs the Tesla supercharger network.

I was planning to purchase one and still might, but would like one made in the USA!

 

[MachDrive]

I was planning to purchase one and still might, but would like one made in the USA!

The decision to use the plant in Mexico was it was the only one idle. The next plant to go idle was also in Mexico, and is making the Bronco Sport.
Keep in mind: 75% of the car components and materials come from the USA.
Ford is also revamping an idle pant in Canada to produce BEVs.
Its cost-effective to retrofit existing lines. i hope all the new vehicles are extremely successful, so Ford has the free capital to build more plants in the USA.

 

[acentre]

I was planning to purchase one and still might, but would like one made in the USA!

Upon further research , it seems Chevys, Fords and Dodge are made in Mexico. I am going to go for a Model Y, and take a chance with Tesla, American Made!

 

[MachDrive]

Upon further research , it seems Chevys, Fords and Dodge are made in Mexico. I am going to go for a Model Y, and take a chance with Tesla, American Made!

Fact check: Ford and GM are the two largest employers of U.S. auto workers. More than any other company in the world, including Tesla.
But its your money, you are free to buy the poorly-built Model Y(ugo).

 

[Sanddawg]

Yes. He should be careful with his statements. With thousands of parts, things could have issues. Especially with a first year.

It should be noted that he never mentions Tesla by name. Only saying that the MMe shouldn’t have quality issues as experienced by other brands. And everything mentioned has to do with assembly.

While thats all well and good, I am more interested with how well that quality control carries into the motors and batteries. I know they want the MMe to be a success, so I hope this translates into quality control measures vastly exceeding everything they’ve done before.

But there is a difference. Tesla’s problems are not of a recall nature but rather simple quality control. Today I read an article (with photos) of wretched quality issues in fit and finish... mis aligned trim, panels. To top it off the purchaser attempted to refuse the car and was told that was no longer possible as the previous 7 day return policy was no longer in effect. Note that this was apparently an X delivery in Hong Kong. The interior of the car was filthy with creases in the leather seats as shown in the pix. This may be an outlier but I’d sure be concerned.

 

[acentre]

Fact check: Ford and GM are the two largest employers of U.S. auto workers. More than any other company in the world, including Tesla.
But its your money, you are free to buy the poorly-built Model Y(ugo).

I know many with Model 3 and Y who are more than satisfied. No need to insult Tesla so vigorously. I had a Ford F150 with numerous problems and a Crown Victoria that was poorly assembled. The fact remains that the Mach E is made in a foreign land, by foreign workers. If you want to support them, instead of my fellow citizens, go ahead.

 

[Sanddawg]

I know many with Model 3 and Y who are more than satisfied. No need to insult Tesla so vigorously. I had a Ford F150 with numerous problems and a Crown Victoria that was poorly assembled. The fact remains that the Mach E is made in a foreign land, by foreign workers. If you want to support them, instead of my fellow citizens, go ahead.

The same goes for Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, VW, Honda, Nissan, et al. They all build their cars in a “foreign “ country. The difference with Ford, GM is that sales benefit American based companies with the majority of its employees in the US, not Japan or Germany. It’s a global economy. And BTW, all use parts made all over the world, even Ford’s trucks but the UAW says Ford trucks are the most American.

 

[MachDrive]

I know many with Model 3 and Y who are more than satisfied. No need to insult Tesla so vigorously. I had a Ford F150 with numerous problems and a Crown Victoria that was poorly assembled. The fact remains that the Mach E is made in a foreign land, by foreign workers. If you want to support them, instead of my fellow citizens, go ahead.

You don’t know me, I support the US economy more than most. I know my purchase of the MMe still supports US workers.

But to pick on a global company like Ford for leveraging all its assets to stay competitive is purely short-sighted.

If Ford were to delay for another two years by needing to secure a location in the US and build up the necessary infrastructure to produce the MMe State-side, they would fall further behind in competition, be financially strained and potentially run out of business.

If that were to happen, say good-bye to those 55,000 US Ford line-worker jobs and all the others employed in the US by Ford Corporate, in dealerships, third-party parts suppliers, etc. -estimated at over 1 million American jobs affected in some way.

There is a bigger picture to look at. Everyone needs to stop focusing on the tree, when they are surrounded by the whole forest. Ford needs to survive now, in order to offer opportunity in the future.

 

[FISHEV]

But to pick on a global company like Ford for leveraging all its assets to stay competitive is purely short-sighted.

With "global company" being the emphasis. MachE's are mostly shipping to EU. Global company, global car.

Not buying a MachE because a US company is building it in Mexico would be like Japanese not buying Toyota because they built a plant in Kentucky.

 

[Jhalkias]

I know many with Model 3 and Y who are more than satisfied. No need to insult Tesla so vigorously. I had a Ford F150 with numerous problems and a Crown Victoria that was poorly assembled. The fact remains that the Mach E is made in a foreign land, by foreign workers. If you want to support them, instead of my fellow citizens, go ahead.

It also goes beyond just this . . . Ford not only supports American workers and is an American company, it is a UNION company. How it treats its workers is also key. Just take a look at how Tesla treated those American workers during the pandemic and compare that to Ford. Also compare Ford's response to the pandemic. There is no comparison. If all you care about is the location, you are not viewing the big picture.

 

[Cowherd.J]

It also goes beyond just this . . . Ford not only supports American workers and is an American company, it is a UNION company. How it treats its workers is also key. Just take a look at how Tesla treated those American workers during the pandemic and compare that to Ford. Also compare Ford's response to the pandemic. There is no comparison. If all you care about is the location, you are not viewing the big picture.

Speaking of which, here's another example of how Tesla treats employees.

Tesla called her a criminal. Her fight could be a milestone for employees' rights

Former engineer says Tesla forced her out and then libeled her. Her lawsuit against the company is testing the limits of the arbitration agreements that bind millions of American workers.

www.latimes.com

 

[Jhalkias]

And then you read stuff like this about Elon. . .

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346458696939921409

 

[MachDrive]

And then you read stuff like this about Elon. . .

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346458696939921409

OMG, is this a real quote, or FUD?