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Verrrrrrry interesting, Hogan.

I wonder if the government is paying for or subsidizing the installations? Otherwise, the cost will have to be passed along to customers -- petrol customers I hope!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
There are several articles on this topic. I read that it's part of a stimulus package that will include increasing (doubling) the rebate depending on vehicle cost , lowering the sales tax by 2% (18% to 16% Yikes) and other incentives,
 

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I have to agree with electrek's take: seems a little heavy handed, especially for neighborhood gas stations where people will all have garages - who's going to use the gas station's chargers?
 

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The thing here in the States is that filling stations tend to be at highway offramps which on long distance travel is a definite plus. I live in the Southwest and it would be very helpful not to be required to drive to locate a Walmart or other type of strip mall to charge. It might be that if it were to be a requirement that it would be limited to the filling stations located at offramps.
 

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The thing here in the States is that filling stations tend to be at highway offramps which on long distance travel is a definite plus. I live in the Southwest and it would be very helpful not to be required to drive to locate a Walmart or other type of strip mall to charge. It might be that if it were to be a requirement that it would be limited to the filling stations located at offramps.
I dunno, I've been playing around with abetterrouteplanner.com to map out some hypothetical trips, and one thing I've noticed is that standalone locations seem less advantageous. When you have to sit for half an hour, having a place to get a bite to eat, shop a little, or even a bathroom within walking distance will be very handy. For example a trip from southern new jersey to charleston sc called for 5 or 6 stops, which after tweaking the stops worked out to:
  • leave the house at 9:30 or so after breakfast with 100% charge
  • after 2.5 hours stop for a 30-40 minute"fillup" (10->80%) and lunch. Preferably NOT just the crappy mcdonalds in walmart, so looking for a walking distance lunch counter or inexpensive restaurant
  • take 2 or 3 shorter stops of 15 or 20 minutes or so in the afternoon, getting a drink and subsequent restroom
  • stop for dinner and another large charge for 45 minutes or so. again, preferably near a better chain or local restaurant
  • drive for another couple of hours, finally stopping at a hotel near the charger, so you can charge while eating breakfast the next day. Or, better yet staying at a hotel with a L2 charger you can plug into overnight
 

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Gas/petrol stations are usually at prime junctions on travel routes. So excellent for charging locations.

In NJ, laws and programs give incentives to companies to add charging stations to their businesses. But it is a voluntary thing. If the feds would stop subsidizing the oil industry, and redirect towards renewable energy incentives, they may be more inclined to do so.
Shell oil has a program (again voluntary) for its franchise owners to install cost-effective charging stations, but i haven’t seen any locations in my area that have them yet.
 

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Gas/petrol stations are usually at prime junctions on travel routes. So excellent for charging locations.
While that is often true, it is not universally true. In my moderate sized new jersey town there are 2 gas stations within a mile of my house that are not on major "travel" routes; probably half of their business is from the service bays. They are located on busy local roads, but no one driving long distance would get off one of the nearby major roads to charge there since there are plenty of gas stations on the major roads (that would thus also have chargers) anyway. I would submit that many rural area gas stations would be in the same position of having to put in chargers no one uses, thus causing them to lose a significant chunk of cash. For gas, people fill up in the morning leaving their homes or at the end of the day just before getting home.
 

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While that is often true, it is not universally true. In my moderate sized new jersey town there are 2 gas stations within a mile of my house that are not on major "travel" routes; probably half of their business is from the service bays. They are located on busy local roads, but no one driving long distance would get off one of the nearby major roads to charge there since there are plenty of gas stations on the major roads (that would thus also have chargers) anyway. I would submit that many rural area gas stations would be in the same position of having to put in chargers no one uses, thus causing them to lose a significant chunk of cash. For gas, people fill up in the morning leaving their homes or at the end of the day just before getting home.
Well ‘usually’ doesn’t mean ‘universally’. :)

I agree that Local stations not near a prime destination won’t really benefit. Since local residents with EVs would charge at home, and not really use any of their mechanical services (at least I wouldn’t due to the specialized training needed for EVs).

The stations I’m focusing on are at rest-stops along interstates and highways. You would think there would be adequate charging along these routes, but there just isn’t the density you would expect up the east coast routes.
An example i give is Shell Oil, which owns Greenlots. How hard would it be to install their own chargers at stations where it makes the most sense? In Europe, Shell is installing chargers this way.
Its not the cost, which Shell would finance. Not the loss of service, since stations on interstates mostly do emergency servicing. The franchise money-makers are the eateries and convenience stores at these locations. Wouldn’t make sense to have EV chargers, where customers need to stay longer to refuel?
 

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Along 95 from NYC north, Tesla has installed charging stations at the rest stops
 

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Well ‘usually’ doesn’t mean ‘universally’. :)

I agree that Local stations not near a prime destination won’t really benefit. Since local residents with EVs would charge at home, and not really use any of their mechanical services (at least I wouldn’t due to the specialized training needed for EVs).

The stations I’m focusing on are at rest-stops along interstates and highways. You would think there would be adequate charging along these routes, but there just isn’t the density you would expect up the east coast routes.
An example i give is Shell Oil, which owns Greenlots. How hard would it be to install their own chargers at stations where it makes the most sense? In Europe, Shell is installing chargers this way.
Its not the cost, which Shell would finance. Not the loss of service, since stations on interstates mostly do emergency servicing. The franchise money-makers are the eateries and convenience stores at these locations. Wouldn’t make sense to have EV chargers, where customers need to stay longer to refuel?
Oh I get that, my comment was directed at the german mandate of EVERY gas station having to put in chargers. That's what I think is heavy handed and a bad idea.

South of NYC along 95 Tesla has chargers at the rest stops, too. That includes the NJ turnpike (half of which is labeled as I-95), delaware, and maryland
 

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Well ‘usually’ doesn’t mean ‘universally’. :)

I agree that Local stations not near a prime destination won’t really benefit. Since local residents with EVs would charge at home, and not really use any of their mechanical services (at least I wouldn’t due to the specialized training needed for EVs).

The stations I’m focusing on are at rest-stops along interstates and highways. You would think there would be adequate charging along these routes, but there just isn’t the density you would expect up the east coast routes.
An example i give is Shell Oil, which owns Greenlots. How hard would it be to install their own chargers at stations where it makes the most sense? In Europe, Shell is installing chargers this way.
Its not the cost, which Shell would finance. Not the loss of service, since stations on interstates mostly do emergency servicing. The franchise money-makers are the eateries and convenience stores at these locations. Wouldn’t make sense to have EV chargers, where customers need to stay longer to refuel?
This...

To me I really don't see he point in requiring petrol stations to have chargers. Around town, almost all of my charging will be done at home so I really don't care whether the dozen or so local petrol stations that I normally fill up my ICE vehicles have chargers or not. Many petrol stations do not have large lots or the space to have even a couple of EVs take up space for 30min + while charging. Really... it makes more sense for my barber shop in a strip mall to have a charger. I know I may spend anywhere from 15-45 min there. Same goes for nail salons, restaurants, etc...
On the interstates, chargers at rest areas would encourage EV owners to stop for lunch while charging.
 

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Oh I get that, my comment was directed at the german mandate of EVERY gas station having to put in chargers. That's what I think is heavy handed and a bad idea.

South of NYC along 95 Tesla has chargers at the rest stops, too. That includes the NJ turnpike (half of which is labeled as I-95), delaware, and maryland
Tesla stations in the US have their proprietary plug, so i would need to buy and carry another adapter. In Europe, Tesla was forced to add the standard plug in addition to theirs.

Its my belief that other companies have to step up to the plate. Maybe not forced like Germany, but they may need to be nudged along somehow.
 
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