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I am a big believer in autonomous driving and do believe that we'll see it soon. That said, Tesla's approach is at best a con... at worst, manslaughter.

This is an excellent report.

It highlights my second-biggest problem with Tesla as a company, and is one of the main reasons i am not considering a Tesla for my next vehicle.
 

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Great video! Thanks for posting.

With regard to the $8,000 "Auto Pilot" option, I think it was summed up best by the lady who said:

Buying this options "turns consumers into investors".

What a "con job" Musk has done: he is getting current consumers to pay for Tesla's continued development of "Auto Pilot" with the hopes that sometime in the future you will (or whoever then owns your Tesla, assuming it is still operating, has not run into something and has been totaled) get these new features which will make your old used Tesla somehow worth thousands of dollars more.

Again I just do not get it!
 

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Great video! Thanks for posting.

With regard to the $8,000 "Auto Pilot" option, I think it was summed up best by the lady who said:

Buying this options "turns consumers into investors".

What a "con job" Musk has done: he is getting current consumers to pay for Tesla's continued development of "Auto Pilot" with the hopes that sometime in the future you will (or whoever then owns your Tesla, assuming it is still operating, has not run into something and has been totaled) get these new features which will make your old used Tesla somehow worth thousands of dollars more.

Again I just do not get it!
But it's shocking how people BELIEVE.... they really do.

The guy is a genius in many ways... and one of them is convincing people that they are buying an idea
 

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But it's shocking how people BELIEVE.... they really do.

The guy is a genius in many ways... and one of them is convincing people that they are buying an idea
As far as I can see people are not being forced to buy this 8K option. If you have the money and want it then buy it. I'm sure people who buy a Tesla know it is not available as a full driverless system yet. So it's taking a long time to develop and missing deadlines, hey it's software. One thing known in the car industry Tesla is way ahead in software technology for vehicles. As far as the accidents and fatalities those are going to happen and is sad to see but more people die from falling asleep at the wheel every year. I for one have no interest in this technology as I want to drive my car and control it. Just remember, when was the last time your computer froze?
 

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As far as I can see people are not being forced to buy this 8K option. If you have the money and want it then buy it. I'm sure people who buy a Tesla know it is not available as a full driverless system yet. So it's taking a long time to develop and missing deadlines, hey it's software. One thing known in the car industry Tesla is way ahead in software technology for vehicles. As far as the accidents and fatalities those are going to happen and is sad to see but more people die from falling asleep at the wheel every year. I for one have no interest in this technology as I want to drive my car and control it. Just remember, when was the last time your computer froze?
Caveat Emptor... yes but the problem is that Elon is over-promising and under-delivering while saying things like it's worth $100K, prices are going up... making bold LA to NY driving claims, etc. If he would just STFU, I may be OK but it's just plain reckless and the idiot sheep have and are going to kill themselves.
 

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Caveat Emptor... yes but the problem is that Elon is over-promising and under-delivering while saying things like it's worth $100K, prices are going up... making bold LA to NY driving claims, etc. If he would just STFU, I may be OK but it's just plain reckless and the idiot sheep have and are going to kill themselves.
As been said forever, "PEOPLE ARE STUPID"! Apparently it does not matter what Elon says or does, just check Tesla and Ford stock. As for the idiot sheep it comes down to the saying from when computers became mainstream, "RTFM".
 

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As been said forever, "PEOPLE ARE STUPID"! Apparently it does not matter what Elon says or does, just check Tesla and Ford stock. As for the idiot sheep it comes down to the saying from when computers became mainstream, "RTFM".
Yep... but smart people like Elon should know this... I mean really... was it a surprise to anyone that some idiot would be sleeping or playing Mario kart while on auto pilot?
 

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Interesting story. I give Tesla lots of credit for making the electric car a reality, but I can’t stand those who over promise and under deliver. Musk is a master of that con.
 

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Yep... but smart people like Elon should know this... I mean really... was it a surprise to anyone that some idiot would be sleeping or playing Mario kart while on auto pilot?
I'm sure Elon is smart but why should it be his responsibility to make sure other people be responsible for their own actions. We're seeing this right now with people refusing to wear a face covering while out in public.
 

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Interesting story. I give Tesla lots of credit for making the electric car a reality, but I can’t stand those who over promise and under deliver. Musk is a master of that con.
He has delivered more than he has over promise. One reason why the car industry is playing catch-up when it comes to software.
 

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He has delivered more than he has over promise. One reason why the car industry is playing catch-up when it comes to software.
So in the context of this post, autonomous driving. What has he delivered more than he over promised? Specific promises he has made and over delivered on. He's one of the most quoted people on earth so it should be easy...

If you want to talk about what a visionary Elon is (and I do agree he's a visionary)... start a post under that subject.
I stand by my assertion... at best a con, at worst manslaughter wrt to autonomous driving.
 

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So in the context of this post, autonomous driving. What has he delivered more than he over promised? Specific promises he has made and over delivered on. He's one of the most quoted people on earth so it should be easy...

If you want to talk about what a visionary Elon is (and I do agree he's a visionary)... start a post under that subject.
I stand by my assertion... at best a con, at worst manslaughter wrt to autonomous driving.
I stand by my assertion, the rest of the car industry is playing catch-up. He has delivered more with autonomous driving than any of the car companies. I have no interest in autonomous driving as I've stated above.
 

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I stand by my assertion, the rest of the car industry is playing catch-up. He has delivered more with autonomous driving than any of the car companies. I have no interest in autonomous driving as I've stated above.
So... crickets...

I'm quoting you here "He has delivered more than he has over promise."

Give us an example where he over promised then over delivered on subject wrt Autonomous driving. Again, he's one of the most quoted human beings on earth. Should be easy for you... no?

I don't argue that his team has made many advancements in autonomous driving.... My first post notes a problem with Tesla's approach, not their technology. At worst... Elon has blood on his hands. People have died.
 

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So... crickets...

I'm quoting you here "He has delivered more than he has over promise."

Give us an example where he over promised then over delivered on subject wrt Autonomous driving. Again, he's one of the most quoted human beings on earth. Should be easy for you... no?

I don't argue that his team has made many advancements in autonomous driving.... My first post notes a problem with Tesla's approach, not their technology. At worst... Elon has blood on his hands. People have died.
My quote has to do with Tesla having a total of 3 billion miles driven on Autopilot as of this past April. That to be says he has delivered. As for the over promises, this is software and it takes time to get it right. As I've said I have no interest in self driving cars.


As for Elon has blood on his hands, does this mean you would not ride in a Tesla or own one? Do you ever take a trip with an airline company? If you do I'm sure you make sure it's not on a Boeing 737! Like I said it takes time to get software right.
 

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I stand by my assertion, the rest of the car industry is playing catch-up. He has delivered more with autonomous driving than any of the car companies. I have no interest in autonomous driving as I've stated above.
I think we can all agree that Musk is the one that started the BEV revolution. As the video indicated, initially it was BEV that morphed into full self driving capability. Personally I think Musk is delusional: thinking that by the end of 2020 he is going to have a fleet of robotaxies with full self driving capabilities and to create that fleet when he leases cars at the end you cannot buy them, thus getting the cars necessary to complete the robo fleet.

I think we will see a different scenario in 2 years when those first Model 3's come off lease and there is no need for them as the full self driving capability will not be there.

IMO, that will not happen in 2021, 2022 or even 2023.

But more to your point he has delivered "more with autonomous driving than any of the car companies".

I presently am driving a 2019 E450 Mercedes with their full driver assist package: When I am on cruise control, my car follows the car in front of me: stops when it stops, goes when it goes. It has speed sign recognition - which I have disconnected. If I put on a turn signal it changes lanes; It has emergency braking front and rear. I can keep my hands off the wheel for up to two minutes and it stays in lane and if wanted it will park itself.

As compared to Tesla it lacks lane changing on its own and on and off ramp from the interstate. Going from point A to point B, which is self driving capability is many, many years away and the technology to do that in urban areas, where cars stop for no reason, people pull out of parking spaces without looking, where pedestrians dart from between cars to cross the street, where bikers go all over the place and buses have special dedicated lanes is so far beyond present technology and to say it will be available in 2 to 3 years is ludicrous.

Here is the thing: Tesla has a zero, I repeat a zero advertising budget. Their advertising consists of outlandish claims made by Musk, which the media pick up, discussed ad infinitum, posted on boards and discussion groups. The more outlandish the more the media picks it up.

This is brilliant on the part of Musk: he has learned to play the media like a piano getting advertising worth millions if not billions for no cost.

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This post is just my opinion.

I give Elon and Tesla credit for waking up the auto industry by proving EVs can be competitive to ICE cars.

As far as self-driving, there are systems way more advanced than what Tesla has. The catch is, they are not available to the public. Tesla made the tech accessible, and made self-driving something desired in a vehicle, no small achievement. Personally, I love to drive. I think the quest for L5 is a slow death for one of the few, pure passions to come out of technology: the exhilaration behind the wheel.

Elon is also a master at marketing, and taking advantage of his customers. I read behind his words and actions, and this is what I hear:
“Be my beta-testers, my street-mappers, my advertisers. To do so, you have to buy my cars, pay an additional $8,000 to me for the privilege, suffer through shoddy built vehicles and poor customer service. In return I will pay you nothing, and further mislead you into giving me even more of your money with false timelines and promises. And you will stand there and take it, and say ‘thank you sir, may I have another...’”

Okay, that was a bit dramatic. But i hope it illustrates my feelings on the subject.
 

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“Be my beta-testers, my street-mappers, my advertisers. To do so, you have to buy my cars, pay an additional $8,000 to me for the privilege, suffer through shoddy built vehicles and poor customer service. In return I will pay you nothing, and further mislead you into giving me even more of your money with false timelines and promises. And you will stand there and take it, and say ‘thank you sir, may I have another...’”
You forgot one thing: "Bend over"

Could not agree more and that were the points of my two posts.
 

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My quote has to do with Tesla having a total of 3 billion miles driven on Autopilot as of this past April. That to be says he has delivered. As for the over promises, this is software and it takes time to get it right. As I've said I have no interest in self driving cars.


As for Elon has blood on his hands, does this mean you would not ride in a Tesla or own one? Do you ever take a trip with an airline company? If you do I'm sure you make sure it's not on a Boeing 737! Like I said it takes time to get software right.
Elon too knows it takes time to get software right. He knows better than any of us and CNBC where Tesla is on software. Yet he has been making outlandish claims for what? 10 years now? Never delivering on them.
Tesla having done more on autonomous driving than anyone else is no excuse for snake oil salesman tactics of "it's worth $100K, prices are going up, buy before July...". I too admire the guy but we can agree this is complete BS with no excuse.
...and yes. Boeing definately has blood on their hands and have lost my trust for a while... I am actually surprised that after those Tesla deaths, the NTSB didn't "ground" their vehicles until a software update could be made to disable or make the feature safer for the low denominator idiot.
As for Ford... Many might recall that they too have blood on their hands with the Pinto fuel tank. I doubt that anyone at Tesla is surprised that people abuse Autopilot/Self drive. Those deaths worth the few billion miles of data?

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Elon too knows it takes time to get software right. He knows better than any of us and CNBC where Tesla is on software. Yet he has been making outlandish claims for what? 10 years now? Never delivering on them.
Tesla having done more on autonomous driving than anyone else is no excuse for snake oil salesman tactics of "it's worth $100K, prices are going up, buy before July...". I too admire the guy but we can agree this is complete BS with no excuse.
...and yes. Boeing definately has blood on their hands and have lost my trust for a while... I am actually surprised that after those Tesla deaths, the NTSB didn't "ground" their vehicles until a software update could be made to disable or make the feature safer for the low denominator idiot.
As for Ford... Many might recall that they too have blood on their hands with the Pinto fuel tank. I doubt that anyone at Tesla is surprised that people abuse Autopilot/Self drive. Those deaths worth the few billion miles of data?

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If companies had to manufacture to the lowest denominator we would still be driving Model-Ts. We all can agree Elon is the slick salesperson as judged by all the comments in this thread. Good or bad, Elon will be around for awhile. Let's hope our astronauts make it back safely next week.
 
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