[dbsb3233]

I went into this just assuming I wanted to get the ER battery (even though it's quite pricey at +$5000). Who wouldn't want as much range as possible, right? Just in case.

But the more I think this through, I'm questioning that. First lets get this out of the way... If one isn't in the right situation to do 99% of their charging at a secure, dedicated, guaranteed location (typically at home overnight in the garage), one probably shouldn't even be considering a BEV. BEVs are clearly a bad fit for lots of long-distance driving that requires public charging stations.

But on the other hand, we're plunking down 60 grand for a very cool car with all the latest bells and whistles, so it would sure be nice to be able to use it in on the occasional long drive. But how practical is that really? And is it really worth $5000 for that?

Depends on your regular driving patterns, of course. Let's assume you almost never drive more than 100 total miles/day. That's comfortably within the window of range for the base battery even on a bad weather day, and probably even if you forget to plug in one night (we know that'll happen sometime).

But what if you still wanna take a few long road trips each year (and you buy the extended battery for it)? Actual range on a 100% overnight charge might be 270 miles, but since you're limited by charging station locations that can be sparse, good chance you'll really have to settle for one within just 225 miles. 45 minute stop to fill maybe 200 miles (charging slows way down if you try to go all the way to 100%). Lather/rinse/repeat in 200 mile increments until you reach your destination. Your destination (hotel?) probably doesn't have overnight EV charging so you have a 45 minute charge there too. And repeat it all on the way back. Paying premium rates higher than gasoline.

And what about speed? Many interstates (especially in the West) have 75-80 MPH speed limits. I'm not gonna drive 65 in a 75 zone. Screw that. How much worse is energy-burn rate at 75 MPH though? 5%? 10%? 20%?

More and more it's seeming like long trips above maybe 200 miles, even with the bigger battery, are just too much time, hassle, and compromise. And if I'm just gonna drive an ICE vehicles for those instead, paying $5000 for the bigger battery is just a waste since regular range is still plenty around town.

 

[theothertom]

I hear you but we just don't know enough yet. The numbers Ford has published are estimates. Most EV's get around 4 miles per kWh, so the standard range Mustang should have a 300 mile range and the extended should be closer to 400 miles. And...they haven't published the charging curves yet. Tesla's charge pretty fast at their superchargers and people spend 10-20 minutes there, just enough time to stretch your legs, go to the bathroom, etc. Ford is taking aim at Tesla so my guess (hope) is that the Mustang will charge in a similar fashion. But yes, there are a few charging deserts for Tesla and EA, which Ford will be using. But for the most part there are ample chargers well located along major highways.

You are correct in that speed reduces range. I drive a Chevy Bolt and driving at 80 will reduce the EPA range about 25%, driving at 70 maybe 12% and zero loss for 60 mph. Below 60 the efficiency goes over the EPA rating. I've seen 6.0 miles per kWh when driving around 30-35 mph.
Cold weather also reduces range. I get a 33% reduction when it's 30-35 degrees outside. So combining cold weather and high speed is a range killer. But all EV's are that way, even Tesla.

You can look at abetterrouteplanner.com and plot a route for a long distance trip to see how many charging stops you'll have to make and how long at each. The you can compare that to an ICE car. We normally take a 600 mile trip in our ICE and it takes 10 hours, including stops. I planned the same route for a Tesla (hopefully similar to a Mustang) and it calculated 11 hours. It calculated 12 hours if we took our Bolt.

I'm going to wait for the real numbers for the Mustang to see if it's worth it, to me, to trade our Bolt. I'll be looking hard at real world range and charging rates, and the build out of the EA network. I sure would like to make that 600 mile trip and in not much more than 10 hours, like I do now.

 

[dbsb3233]

Agreed that there's a lot of unknowns only based on estimates right now. The problem for those of us that placed a deposit in hopes of getting one of the first-year Mach-e's is that the timeframe suggests we'll be ordering in the Spring. Presumably before real-world reviewers get a change to test them out. So we need to gather the best estimates before then. Such is the life of wanting an early one, I suppose. I figure I'm only 60% about following through on my purchase vs just getting by deposit refunded, in large part for this very reason -- to many unknowns to not wait for real-world testing first.

The videos I've watched for some other BEVs were showing more like 3.5 miles/kWh highway. Maybe 4 is realistic, but OTOH the Mach-e looks a little bigger/heavier and more powerful than vehicles like the eNiro, Kona, or Bolt. I would guess (like an ICE vehicle) that means a little worse mileage rather than better. 400 miles of real-world range would really surprise me (although that would certainly be great).

From a practical standpoint, the energy-burn rate at 30-35 MPH really doesn't matter much. That's daily around-town driving where range is a non-issue because I can do all that in one overnight charge. Where range truly matters is at highway speeds and long drives. And that, unfortunately, is much worse. It really is a Catch-22 in that regard. Where we NEED the better mileage/range, we don't get it. And where we get it, we don't need it.

 

[dbsb3233]

Oh, for the fun of it I checked out abetterrouteplanner for the route I'm most interested in (Denver-Las Vegas). Granted, it's a bigger challenge in the wide-open west where there's fewer charging stations. Still though, it wasn't encouraging. It does have the Mach-e in there, which is nice. In addition to showing an extra 1.3 hours of actual drive time, it adds 4 hours of charging time on 5 stops (normally there's just 2 quick gas stops). Effectively turns it into a 2-day trip instead of one. And $165 in charging costs.

None of that is a real surprise, of course, but it does reinforce my thoughts about probably just leaving the BEV at home and using the ICE car for such a trip. 😕

 

[pew]

Colorado to Vegas... looks like lots of free DCFC and L2 charging opportunities, this is what shows up for free charging on Plugshare.

 

[dbsb3233]

I'll have to play with PlugShare some to figure out the options. But the big problem on that particular map is the 427 mile gap between Grand Junction and Mesquite (I-70 to I-15).

There are pay charging stations along the way, of course. Abetterrouteplanner mapped them out. The bigger issue is not so much the price, but rather the 4-5 extra hours for charging and all the extra stops. For it to take than much extra time, we'd drive the Escape instead.

 

[Billyk24]

There are more dead areas for the Non-Tesla BEV than Tesla owners experience. There is zero fast charging stations in the UP of Michigan. Fast charging stations in Northern Wisconsin (where I have a home) is zero also. One can find level 2 chargers but these will add like 22-32 miles per hour of charging. Not the best situation for longer distance travel in rural areas. As for miles per kWh, my PHEV CMax is obtaining over 4.5 during the warmer months.

 

[eastern refugee]

FYI wherever there is a ford dealership there will be free charging. We dive an average of 2500 miles a month per car. Some of those drives are 200 miles round trip. I have priced it all out based on the numbers and the mustang will pay it self in just the gas savings. My bill now for two cars is about $800 a month. My 2018 cmax gets about 37 mpg. My 2017 fusion sport AWD. Gets 20 city and 25 hwy. charging at night at home means zero stops on the 270 battery and I am figuring about $9-12 dollars for 270 miles. No question it is cheaper. My buddy and I go on long hockey road trips every year. You would be surprised how many hotels have free charging. We have gone from Cali to Texas to 30 miles south of Wyoming through Utah and Nevada. Plus of course states in between. I just saw a MB plunged into a 110 at a double tree. In OKC they gave me an orange cord for my fusion energy at the time. As far as charging on the road I know we stop for a snack or meal etc. so we plan on stopping to charge and plan it that way. Today we drive and get gas when we have to buy then stop again to eat or to use the bathroom. With the mustang we will actually stop less and accomplish all at one time. You all are right in that we do not know the costs until we do it however there is no way EA is goi g to be more expensive then gas. I think it is a different shift of thinking. I look at like my phone. I have no idea how long it will last without charging. I just charge it when it makes sense like at night while I am sleeping or before I know I will be away from charging for a long period of time. You also have to count the maintenance on gas vehicles and duration. For example would you trust driving a gas car 1000 miles with 150,000 miles? An electric car is about longevity. Tesla and ford think batteries will go upwards of 250,000 or more. Tesla is saying 1 million. Electric cars are a completely different mind set then a gas car.

 

[dbsb3233]

If you're putting a whopping 2500 miles a month (30k/yr) on a car, and under 200 miles/day (i.e. a single day charge), and have a dedicated overnight charging outlet, then you're certainly a prime candidate for a BEV. That scenario is slam-dunk. The more miles you drive, the better the payout on the fuel savings.

I'm in the opposite scenario. Retired and drive maybe 5000 miles a year. It actually makes little sense for me to get one as it will cost me more, but if I do get one of these it will really just be a splurge because it's a really cool car. But I know I'm not the prime candidate. People that drive a lot are.

Even though it will technically be possible for me to use this on long trips, I probably won't because it would commonly require a lot of extra time and compromise. That's why we'll still have our great little Ford Escape though. One BEV and one ICE vehicle in the household will be an ideal combo. Kinda the best of both worlds. All I really posted this thread for was to explore the various aspects affecting the value of getting the extended battery or not.

 

[Billyk24]

would you trust driving a gas car 1000 miles with 150,000 miles? yes. I have done that many time with my 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid AWD until Oct when it had 199,000 miles and rust became an issue.

 

[eastern refugee]

If you're putting a whopping 2500 miles a month (30k/yr) on a car, and under 200 miles/day (i.e. a single day charge), and have a dedicated overnight charging outlet, then you're certainly a prime candidate for a BEV. That scenario is slam-dunk. The more miles you drive, the better the payout on the fuel savings.

I'm in the opposite scenario. Retired and drive maybe 5000 miles a year. It actually makes little sense for me to get one as it will cost me more, but if I do get one of these it will really just be a splurge because it's a really cool car. But I know I'm not the prime candidate. People that drive a lot are.

Even though it will technically be possible for me to use this on long trips, I probably won't because it would commonly require a lot of extra time and compromise. That's why we'll still have our great little Ford Escape though. One BEV and one ICE vehicle in the household will be an ideal combo. Kinda the best of both worlds. All I really posted this thread for was to explore the various aspects affecting the value of getting the extended battery or not.

 

[theothertom]

I'm in the opposite scenario. Retired and drive maybe 5000 miles a year. It actually makes little sense for me to get one as it will cost me more, but if I do get one of these it will really just be a splurge because it's a really cool car. But I know I'm not the prime candidate. People that drive a lot are.

All I really posted this thread for was to explore the various aspects affecting the value of getting the extended battery or not.

If you're driving 5000 miles per year, then the long range is probably not worth it for you. The Mach-E will be a cool car, and you should get the car you want. By the time it hits showrooms, there will be more, cheaper, non cool EV's for you to chose from

 

[dbsb3233]

There are more dead areas for the Non-Tesla BEV than Tesla owners experience. There is zero fast charging stations in the UP of Michigan. Fast charging stations in Northern Wisconsin (where I have a home) is zero also. One can find level 2 chargers but these will add like 22-32 miles per hour of charging. Not the best situation for longer distance travel in rural areas. As for miles per kWh, my PHEV CMax is obtaining over 4.5 during the warmer months.

Curious what MPkWh you're showing on your CMax at high speeds (75+) on the highway? And is that pure EV mode or does the gas engine kick in to "subsidize" that with an occaisonal a boost?

 

[jeffdawgfan]

To the OP, get the extended battery. As a Nissan Leaf Plus owner.....public charging stations are EXPENSIVE!!!. Charging at home is the only way to make an electric a cost saving venture.

 

[dbsb3233]

To the OP, get the extended battery. As a Nissan Leaf Plus owner.....public charging stations are EXPENSIVE!!!. Charging at home is the only way to make an electric a cost saving venture.

Yeah with each additional day of research I do I'm seeing that long highway trips should really be avoided in a BEV if at all possible. And we'll still have our Escape for that anyway. So I may just end up spec'ing this for around-home driving only and forget about using it for any long drives. The base battery is still plenty big enough for that (210 miles on AWD). I'm still deciding whether the extra $5000 is really worth it "just in case" for the very rare time we might end up unexpectedly driving more than 200 miles in a day. I know the logical answer to that, but that lingering "just in case" still nags at me. 🤔

Either way though, the plan is to never (or rarely ever) use public charging stations.

 

[macchiaz-o]

@dbsb3233, you and I posted this topic at almost the same time. My post is on the other Mach-E forum site.

I've really enjoyed reading your thoughts and others' on here. So far I'm on the same line of thought as you -- given my anticipated needs and driving patterns, the costs associated with the extended range battery option aren't worthwhile.

 

[dbsb3233]

Did some more research for realistic range at long-drive highway speeds. That's all I'm really concerned with, since around-home driving is a non-issue. I can easily fully recharge every night at home with Ford's included 22 miles/hr 220v charger, so the MPkWh for around-town driving is totally irrelevant from a range standpoint.

What matters from a range-standpoint is high speed highway range. Tom's comments above about MPkWh dropping precipitously at high speeds look spot-on. I watched one guy's video where he drove his Bolt at 75 MPH with the A/C on. He was showing 3.2 MPkWh during that. This site shows normal average for the Bolt of 3.97...

What Are The Most Efficient Electric Cars? | CleanTechnica

EV Efficiency - which current highway capable electric vehicles are most efficient - looking at battery capacity and range to get miles per kWh

cleantechnica.com

That represents a 20% drop in MPkWh from the normal average. I also came across this Tesla data table that broke out the range drop every 5 MPH between 55 and 80. It's quite the dramatic drop-off...

Tesla Range Table - Teslike.com

This table is continuously updated based on the latest data. You can always find the latest version here. Last updated on 12 Sep 2019: • Fixed an error related to Model S Long Range with 21″ wheels. It was incorrectly displaying a lower number than it should be. Thanks to Jonas for noticing the...

teslike.com

It varies, but in general it shows roughly a 12% loss at 70 MPH up to a 25% loss at 80 MPH. That's pretty consistent with the Bolt video above. Applying that to a Mach-e drive across Utah where the interstate speed limit is 80 could drop the AWD ERB range from 270 to 200. And more practically, maybe 150 on 80% charges and safety margins. That's just 2 hours. Then 40 minutes to recharge. Each segment.

 

[dbsb3233]

@dbsb3233, you and I posted this topic at almost the same time. My post is on the other Mach-E forum site.

I've really enjoyed reading your thoughts and others' on here. So far I'm on the same line of thought as you -- given my anticipated needs and driving patterns, the costs associated with the extended range battery option aren't worthwhile.

Thanks. I think it's good to share our thoughts on practical info like this, both for confirmation/correction where we might have something wrong, but also to help anyone else that might not have thought about such factors. When considering ordering a new model on a new platform like this, the more issues we can anticipate, the better.

I hate the thought of not feeling like I can use my 60 thousand dollar fancy new Mustang on a road trip, but I'd rather come to that realization BEFORE buying (so I can spec it accordingly) rather than being disappointed later.

 

[timbop]

The problem is that many of those locations are NOT high volt DC; I realized the same thing researching here in new jersey. As an everyday driver a BEV is a great option, but you really need to keep an ICE for longer trips.

Colorado to Vegas... looks like lots of free DCFC and L2 charging opportunities, this is what shows up for free charging on Plugshare.

View attachment 311

 

[macchiaz-o]

Or rent a car for long trips, unless you have lots of them.