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From what I’ve read, Ford OTA updates will not access the drivetrain therefore there won’t be efficiency and power improvements unlike Tesla. Did I get that right.
There was an upper level marketing guy who said that, but I have seen Darren Palmer (head of team edison) say that the OTA updates can update anything on several occasions. I am going with Palmer on this one.
 

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I wonder what the landscape will look like in several years when you might want to "upgrade" the battery. Will future batteries support higher ranges or faster charging as technology and manufacturing processes advance, and if so, would the mach-e be able to support the better batteries? Could you put in an extended range battery for your car's second life if you started off with a standard range? Maybe "future proofing" by buying a larger battery than you currently need is a waste if you end up just replacing the battery in the future anyway with something better (assuming you plan to keep your car for a long time). Batteries have reduced drastically in cost over the last 10 years and likely will continue to drop in cost over the next 10 years.
 

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I wonder what the landscape will look like in several years when you might want to "upgrade" the battery. Will future batteries support higher ranges or faster charging as technology and manufacturing processes advance, and if so, would the mach-e be able to support the better batteries? Could you put in an extended range battery for your car's second life if you started off with a standard range? Maybe "future proofing" by buying a larger battery than you currently need is a waste if you end up just replacing the battery in the future anyway with something better (assuming you plan to keep your car for a long time). Batteries have reduced drastically in cost over the last 10 years and likely will continue to drop in cost over the next 10 years.
A lot will depend on the Mach E's success. If this is a huge hit for Ford and it ends up selling hundreds of thousands of them over the next few years, then this increases the chances of aftermarket batteries becoming available in the future. Not that it's certain though and we still can't guess if their cost will be lower or not. Building a custom battery pack isn't just about the cost of the cells. Again, bigger volume will help drive prices down, but I'm not sure how big a volume we could be talking about.

Overall, if I had to guess, I'd say it will always be pretty expensive to replace/upgrade the battery.

Not that it's the same, but this also holds true for other devices like my laptop. Battery prices might have reduced significantly over the last 5 years, but a new (good quality) battery for my laptop costs today exactly what it did 10 years ago.
 

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Certainly the battery is replaceable, but within certain constraints. It should be possible to put in a higher density pack, but the electrical connections and characteristics of the other components will also determine things like charging speed. Comparing it to ICEs, you can't just pull out a 4 banger and stick in a big v8 - it requires changes to the transmission, drivetrain, etc.
 

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Yeah, you are probably right. The battery packaging and heating/cooling system and such is so specific to the vehicle that it is likely a later replacement will be largely the same even if better battery systems are developed for future models. And, because of the propertiery design, it will probably need to be bought from Ford and won’t be discounted.

Maybe an extended could be put in to replace a standard, if it needs to be later replaced. Extended pack is physically larger but I imagine the car body will just be “empty” in those places on cars equipped with a standard battery. The pictures show the extended battery taking up more space in the back, near the second row seats, but apparently does not take up any of the cargo space in the back.
 

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when the battery isn’t capable for driving a car , it can be used for other energy storage solutions. the old battery will have a residual value. You can also exchange a faulty cluster instead of a complete battery.

personally i changed from the 99 kwh RWD to the 75 kwh AWD. The price difference in the Netherlands Is € 8.000 to € 10.000 between the two versions. I get a nicer 75 AWD for € 8.000. Price difference on the Mach E is quite ridiculos between the types.

in the Netherlands daily distances are normaly very short. We also have a lot of charging stations. There is no real need for a 100 kwh for that kind of money.
 

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A lot will depend on the Mach E's success. If this is a huge hit for Ford and it ends up selling hundreds of thousands of them over the next few years, then this increases the chances of aftermarket batteries becoming available in the future. Not that it's certain though and we still can't guess if their cost will be lower or not. Building a custom battery pack isn't just about the cost of the cells. Again, bigger volume will help drive prices down, but I'm not sure how big a volume we could be talking about.

Overall, if I had to guess, I'd say it will always be pretty expensive to replace/upgrade the battery.

Not that it's the same, but this also holds true for other devices like my laptop. Battery prices might have reduced significantly over the last 5 years, but a new (good quality) battery for my laptop costs today exactly what it did 10 years ago.
There is an interesting article on Jalopnik published recently about a Tesla Model X that was driven over 400,000 miles and they have a spreadsheet with detailed expenses. The HV battery was replaced at 317,000 miles because the car was stopping when the display indicated miles left to empty. Apparently they were able to get Tesla to cover under warranty. Link: This Tesla Model X Has Driven Over 400,000 Miles. Here Are All The Parts That Had To Be Replaced
If the battery is not abused in the charging/discharge cycles, a replacement may not be needed in the life of the car. I've read other articles about the Li-Ion batteries that indicate how the cells swell near the end of the charge cycle. That is why the charging rate is slowed near the end of the charging. I believe they said that constant use of the fast charging can reduce the battery life. I need to look for the article link to share. Hopefully Ford has built that protection into the software that controls the charge speed.
 

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Also, according to this video, the SR battery only charges at 115 kw while the ER battery charges at 150 kw.
 

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Also, according to this video, the SR battery only charges at 115 kw while the ER battery charges at 150 kw.
Yes, that is true. But, it also means the lower rate at EA - which would theoretically balance out - 30% higher charging cost at 30% faster charge speed (at nondiscount price; the discounted rate difference is 40%). However, based on the charging averages Ford is talking about (47 miles in 10 minutes, full charge in 45/38 minutes for ER/SR), it seems the peak charging tapers off fairly quickly. Of course we won't know for sure until the curves are officially published, but back of the envelope calculations (backed up by abetterroutplanner.com) suggest that the same voyage will be cheaper in a SR (with the downside being longer charging time). Mapping out a theoretical trip from NJ -> Charleston SC -> Atlanta: in an ER RWD the cost was $325 (at the non-discounted rate) with 5:42 total charging time; for a SR RWD it came to $246 (at the non-discounted rate) with a total charging time of 6:38.
 

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Ford engineers have said, in several interviews, that every component can be updated OTA. Some features the user can control the update, and others Ford will dictate. I assume the mandatory ones will be performance and safety related.

There is an A-B system used for updates. Where the update can be rolled back instantly should an update not install as planned. This will help prevent the MME from getting an update incorrectly applied and leaving you stranded on the side of the road.

As for the Batteries, charging has sophisticated controls in all new BEVs.

In addition to the input regulators, Individual sensors on the different pack clusters regulate as necessary to prevent the packs from getting too hot or when they near 80% charge capacity. There are also multi-strand fuses in place as well to deal with unexpected power fluctuations should the electronics fail to compensate.

there are many fascinating videos out there about how EV batteries are built and operate.
 

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Mapping out a theoretical trip from NJ -> Charleston SC -> Atlanta: in an ER RWD the cost was $325 (at the non-discounted rate) with 5:42 total charging time; for a SR RWD it came to $246 (at the non-discounted rate) with a total charging time of 6:38.
I don't get it. Why would electric charging cost so much more for the ER?
 

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I don't get it. Why would electric charging cost so much more for the ER?
EA's rates are 3 tiered: 1-75kw, 76-125kw, and 126kw+. Here in NJ the fee for non-members is $.99 at the top and $.70 in the middle; for "members" who pay the $4/month fee it is $.70 and $.50 respectively. The rate is determined by the current draw at the beginning of the session, so for an ER battery that is in a low state of charge it will start drawing 150kw, which is the $.99/min fee. As the session goes that charge speed will drop off to below 125kw, but the rate stays fixed at $.99/min for the whole session. For the Standard range battery that can only draw 115kw max, the rate will be $.70. Now, looking at Ford's reported charge times from 10%->80% they say the ER will do it in 45 minutes and the SR in 38 minutes. Assuming a 10% buffer, 70% of the ER battery is 63kwhr - so the average draw over 45 minutes is 84kw (63/.75). In the case of the SR battery with a 10% buffer, 70% would be 49kwhr - so the average draw is 77.4 kw (49/.633). That means on average the ER only actually draws about 10% more power than the SR for a 30% higher cost.
 

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EA's rates are 3 tiered: 1-75kw, 76-125kw, and 126kw+. Here in NJ the fee for non-members is $.99 at the top and $.70 in the middle; for "members" who pay the $4/month fee it is $.70 and $.50 respectively. The rate is determined by the current draw at the beginning of the session, so for an ER battery that is in a low state of charge it will start drawing 150kw, which is the $.99/min fee. As the session goes that charge speed will drop off to below 125kw, but the rate stays fixed at $.99/min for the whole session. For the Standard range battery that can only draw 115kw max, the rate will be $.70. Now, looking at Ford's reported charge times from 10%->80% they say the ER will do it in 45 minutes and the SR in 38 minutes. Assuming a 10% buffer, 70% of the ER battery is 63kwhr - so the average draw over 45 minutes is 84kw (63/.75). In the case of the SR battery with a 10% buffer, 70% would be 49kwhr - so the average draw is 77.4 kw (49/.633). That means on average the ER only actually draws about 10% more power than the SR for a 30% higher cost.
From where I am in NJ, it’s about 760 miles to Charleston, SC. An ER/AWD would need three 40 min fast charge sessions assuming you left home on a full charge. Driving around 190 miles between each stop. 120 min x $.70=$84. Your numbers are way off.
 

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EA's rates are 3 tiered: 1-75kw, 76-125kw, and 126kw+. Here in NJ the fee for non-members is $.99 at the top and $.70 in the middle; for "members" who pay the $4/month fee it is $.70 and $.50 respectively. The rate is determined by the current draw at the beginning of the session, so for an ER battery that is in a low state of charge it will start drawing 150kw, which is the $.99/min fee. As the session goes that charge speed will drop off to below 125kw, but the rate stays fixed at $.99/min for the whole session. For the Standard range battery that can only draw 115kw max, the rate will be $.70. Now, looking at Ford's reported charge times from 10%->80% they say the ER will do it in 45 minutes and the SR in 38 minutes. Assuming a 10% buffer, 70% of the ER battery is 63kwhr - so the average draw over 45 minutes is 84kw (63/.75). In the case of the SR battery with a 10% buffer, 70% would be 49kwhr - so the average draw is 77.4 kw (49/.633). That means on average the ER only actually draws about 10% more power than the SR for a 30% higher cost.
Gotcha. The difference is due to EA”s differential costs by charging rates. I wonder if you can throttle the MME charging rate to keep the cost down?
 

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From where I am in NJ, it’s about 760 miles to Charleston, SC. An ER/AWD would need three 40 min fast charge sessions assuming you left home on a full charge. Driving around 190 miles between each stop. 120 min x $.70=$84. Your numbers are way off.
NJ -> Charleston SC -> Atlanta GA -> NJ. 1843 miles by abetterroutplanner, 1800 miles by google maps
 

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NJ -> Charleston SC -> Atlanta GA -> NJ. 1843 miles by abetterroutplanner, 1800 miles by google maps
Oh, I missed a few of the legs of your trip :) makes more sense now.
 

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I have a standard battery ordered right now. My driving habits allow for me to be comfortable with the lower range. I live in the Midwest and abetterrouteplanner.com shows my normal 3hr trip to my parents is now a 5hr trip, but the Ford website shows a charging station in my parents hometown and I think that is correct. Two hour difference though? That's a life style change it that's the case. Also, I am concerned with trade in value with the standard battery as well. People are scared of the run out of charge plus an older vehicle. I'm not sure if the value at the end will be worth not paying the $5k extra.
 

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I have a standard battery ordered right now. My driving habits allow for me to be comfortable with the lower range. I live in the Midwest and abetterrouteplanner.com shows my normal 3hr trip to my parents is now a 5hr trip, but the Ford website shows a charging station in my parents hometown and I think that is correct. Two hour difference though? That's a life style change it that's the case. Also, I am concerned with trade in value with the standard battery as well. People are scared of the run out of charge plus an older vehicle. I'm not sure if the value at the end will be worth not paying the $5k extra.
It may be worth considering a lease, in this case
 

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I have a standard battery ordered right now. My driving habits allow for me to be comfortable with the lower range. I live in the Midwest and abetterrouteplanner.com shows my normal 3hr trip to my parents is now a 5hr trip, but the Ford website shows a charging station in my parents hometown and I think that is correct. Two hour difference though? That's a life style change it that's the case. Also, I am concerned with trade in value with the standard battery as well. People are scared of the run out of charge plus an older vehicle. I'm not sure if the value at the end will be worth not paying the $5k extra.
A three hour trip is about 200 miles. Even if you stopped once for a charge along the way, that's about 30 minutes. How is it figuring a 2 hour adder? Charge at your parents home town and then maybe one more 30 minute stop on the way home.
 
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