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The price is not compelling to you, we all understand that. For some, it is not an issue. We must all accept opinions will differ on the topic.

How I see it: The $50k range MSRP for a BEV is just that, they just cost more to make at the present time. It should not be compared it to an ICE price, or another manufacturer having to sell their BEV at a loss just to move cars off the lot. If someone thinks the Audi at a huge discount is a good deal compared to the MMe, I’m sure Audi will be happy to sell one.

While the MMe is hot, Ford is taking this time to recoup additional development costs while the MMe still qualifies for the Federal tax credit. You cannot blame them for leveraging the situation in their favor. Unlike dealer ADM, Ford had no bait-and-switch with the MSRP.

There may be a few MMe for sale on lots here and there, but inventory is so low it will not affect the price any time soon. Some units for sale are just not in the right location to meet the demand.

If someone wants the MMe at a cheaper price than MSRP, check back next Spring. Ford has plenty of overseas and GT orders to keep the assembly line busy until then. (Or, we may see a small discount on the slightly used FCTP units when they go up for sale this summer)

when the FTC is restored for Tesla sometime this year, or—at latest—the next, Ford may have to rethink its strategy for the MMe. At the least, increase the value proposition by adding content, justifying the higher price.
I hardly think that VW, Audi or BMW with their new EV's coming out in the next few months will be selling those cars at a loss. If they do, then the price differential vs. the MME will be greater - all the more reason to buy them rather than the MME.

Tesla has already figured out a way to make the Model Y cheaper than the MME and still earn a profit. As a buyer in a capitalistic economy, I think it makes more sense to reward a company, whether it is Tesla, Audi, BMW or Mercedes with leasing their cars at a lower cost than owning a comparable MME at a higher cost.

Similar products, efficiency of money advises me to buy the less expensive alternative.

What you are suggesting is the reverse of capitalism: You want to continue to reward Ford even though their car cost them more to make than other car manufacturers. Of course that is your choice to buy what you want at the price you want.

Of course I do not blame Ford for leveraging their present position. If they can get away with it, more power to them. That is capitalism at work. My business nature compels me not to be in a disadvantaged leveraged position so long as Ford's feels they are in the "driver's seat" I am willing to wait for that to change - and change it will.

I can wait and the only difference is that you think it will not be until Spring 2022 that prices are reduced or content added: I think it will happen much faster by the Fall 2021.

Finally, and as you know from my other postings, it is not the price per se that bothers me about the FE: It is the lack of a competitive lease - especially when every other manufacturer of EV's, even notorious Tesla, offers leases on their cars: some great like VW others just OK like Tesla. Only Ford does not offer a competitive lease.
 

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All,

Something else.


"Carmaker Ford has said its passenger vehicle line-up in Europe will be all electric by 2030.
By the middle of 2026, all it's cars will be available as electric or hybrid models, it added."


In 2019, Ford had a 6% marketshare of about 15.66 million vehicles sold in Europe (Tesla had a 0.7% market share).
Presuming that all new vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030, that is a pretty hefty market to be diving into.

Granted, they won't all be Mustang Mach E's (or F's or G's :) ).

Lastly, the manufacturer with the largest number of hybrid / electric vehicles on the road in Europe is Renault-Nissan (not Tesla).

Ford (unlike GM or Tesla) is better situated to take advantage of trends in the European car market.
 

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What you are suggesting is the reverse of capitalism: You want to continue to reward Ford even though their car cost them more to make than other car manufacturers. Of course that is your choice to buy what you want at the price you want.
Its not reverse of capitalism. Its supply and demand. If you want it now, you will pay the cost. I am not paying more than the cost that was specified when I reserved. It is what I expected...actually it was less since the MSRP reduction. I also will never reward price-gouging, which is why I will never pay ADM.

The beauty of supply and demand is you can get deals or alternatives if you are willing to wait. I hope you get an awesome deal on whichever BEV you decide on in the coming future.
 

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Its not reverse of capitalism. Its supply and demand. If you want it now, you will pay the cost. I am not paying more than the cost that was specified when I reserved. It is what I expected...actually it was less since the MSRP reduction. I also will never reward price-gouging, which is why I will never pay ADM.

The beauty of supply and demand is you can get deals or alternatives if you are willing to wait. I hope you get an awesome deal on whichever BEV you decide on in the coming future.
I fully understand what you are saying: But since our reservations were made market conditions have changed:

  • Telsa is offering leases on the Model Y: when we placed our reservations that did not
  • We have learned that every other manufacturer puts the FTC into the lease: Ford refuses
  • When we put our reservations in we did not know the specifics of the Option Plan: almost all of us thought it would be a lease alternative. It is not.
  • In the next few months there will be many EV's to choose from basic to luxury. When there is more competition prices tend to go down.
You are focusing on the MSRP - almost like MSRP is only thing that matters and since Ford has not changed the MSRP, except to lower it, you are satisfied.

If Tesla had dropped the price of the Model Y another $3,000, so that the MME even after the FTC, were thousands of dollars more, I think your position would be dramatically different.

Sometimes being "first" you pay through the nose. I just do not like to gouged so I will wait and let the market, not Ford find the correct price for the MME. If you want to lease, both the Option Plan and the RCL offered by Ford are "gouging" me.

Within the next few months, with EV's from Audi, BMW, Mercedes and WV, all with competitive leases and financing, I expect Ford to offer competitive RCL's and/or incentives - but maybe not - the demand for the MME may remain so high that Ford may not be forced to offer competitive RCL's or incentives.

But we all know one thing: Dealer profit on the MME is only a fraction of what it is on an ICE and dealer's will not want unsold EV's on their lot tying up capital.
 

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The first lever Ford pulls before any discounts is to shift additional shipments to Canada, Europe or elsewhere. Only when there excess GLOBAL inventory, Ford will start discounting.
Tesla will soon be building cars in Europe and already in China. Those cars are priced thousands of dollars less than the MME.

Keep in mind, from a pricing point of view, the only thing that keeps the MME competitive with the Model Y in the US is the $7,500 FTC. Remove that credit and the MME is $6,000 more than a comparable equipped Model Y.

So I do not see "shipments to Canada, Europe or elsewhere" as being a viable solution - unless you assume buyers will pay substantially more for a MME than a Model Y.

That may be huge ask: If you have difficultly selling the MME vs. the Model Y at a lower price, it may be very, very difficult to the sell the MME in a different market at a substantially higher price. I doubt Ford will pursue this strategy.
 

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I fully understand what you are saying: But since our reservations were made market conditions have changed:

  • Telsa is offering leases on the Model Y: when we placed our reservations that did not
  • We have learned that every other manufacturer puts the FTC into the lease: Ford refuses
  • When we put our reservations in we did not know the specifics of the Option Plan: almost all of us thought it would be a lease alternative. It is not.
  • In the next few months there will be many EV's to choose from basic to luxury. When there is more competition prices tend to go down.
You are focusing on the MSRP - almost like MSRP is only thing that matters and since Ford has not changed the MSRP, except to lower it, you are satisfied.

If Tesla had dropped the price of the Model Y another $3,000, so that the MME even after the FTC, were thousands of dollars more, I think your position would be dramatically different.

Sometimes being "first" you pay through the nose. I just do not like to gouged so I will wait and let the market, not Ford find the correct price for the MME. If you want to lease, both the Option Plan and the RCL offered by Ford are "gouging" me.

Within the next few months, with EV's from Audi, BMW, Mercedes and WV, all with competitive leases and financing, I expect Ford to offer competitive RCL's and/or incentives - but maybe not - the demand for the MME may remain so high that Ford may not be forced to offer competitive RCL's or incentives.

But we all know one thing: Dealer profit on the MME is only a fraction of what it is on an ICE and dealer's will not want unsold EV's on their lot tying up capital.
Tesla is not a compelling vehicle to me. But when other alternatives are on the market, maybe so.
Audi and others had to take a loss because there was no demand for their BEV here in the States. Ford may find itself in the same position 9 months from now. Time will tell.

As for me personally, I was only expecting to see the FTC. However, I had the privilege of many incentives here in NJ. That original $58k MSRP at reservation time ended up under $40k cost to me, not including the financing interest, since I might pay off early. (FTC, $3k MSRP reduction, NJ rebate, Options incentive, $100 software discount, X-Plan, no NJ sales tax). I was pleasantly surprised at how well things worked out in my favor.
 

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Tesla is not a compelling vehicle to me. But when other alternatives are on the market, maybe so.
Audi and others had to take a loss because there was no demand for their BEV here in the States. Ford may find itself in the same position 9 months from now. Time will tell.

As for me personally, I was only expecting to see the FTC. However, I had the privilege of many incentives here in NJ. That original $58k MSRP at reservation time ended up under $40k cost to me, not including the financing interest, since I might pay off early. (FTC, $3k MSRP reduction, NJ rebate, Options incentive, $100 software discount, X-Plan, no NJ sales tax). I was pleasantly surprised at how well things worked out in my favor.
With regard to Audi:

You have to differentiate between the Etron, basically an overpriced modified Q5 with limited range, which today and since they were first brought into the US several years ago have been sitting on dealers lots and the new Q4 eTron that is ground up design that shares its platform with the new VW ID4.

Audi cannot discount the etron enough. They are turkeys.

The new Q4 eTron will be arriving later this year. This will be a different story.

Tesla:

I think most people cross shop the MME with the Model Y.

NJ

I remember you posting all the great deals that NJ gives on EV's including no sales tax!

But most of us are required to pay sales tax and when you lease there is a tremendous tax savings vs. owning.

New cars:

The lease on my MB ends in December. At that time the new EQE may be on the dealer's lots. Both will be E Class cars.

Considering the range on my E450 ICE is over 600 miles, the charging infrastructure will be developing and it will not be robust, the EQE will have a max range of 300 miles, much less in cold weather, will people pay a premium for electric version of the E class vs. the ICE?

You will have two very similar cars from the same manufacturer one ICE and the other EV: The question will be will people pay more for an EV vs. an ICE and if so how much more.

Keep in mind that over 80% of E Class cars are leased so the only number that counts is the monthly payments.
 

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I absolutely was willing to pay a premium to go electric and I never expected the MME to be a luxury car. A luxury-adjacent car, which it is, but not luxury. I never considered the FE to be worth the extra cost, even before the price reductions and I had zero interest in leasing. Your complaints here are valid and you made the right choice for yourself not to take delivery.

Right now Ford is selling the Mach E as fast as it can build them, or as close to that as makes no difference to them. They are not motivated to discount it or offer leasing incentives. As others have pointed out that may change over time, but it is what it is for now. That Audi and Jaguar and GM need to throw massive cash on the hood of their various EV models is not a guarantee that Ford will be similarly unsuccessful, but rather that the general public didn't consider their models compelling anywhere near MSRP. FWIW I think I got full value for my money and I think I made the right choice for myself to take delivery.

I guess my issue with all of these arguments is that you've now seemingly dedicated your time here to trying to convince us all that we're wrong based on your own criteria of needing a competitive lease and a car that is on-par, luxury-wise, with a similarly-priced ICE vehicle.
 

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I absolutely was willing to pay a premium to go electric and I never expected the MME to be a luxury car. A luxury-adjacent car, which it is, but not luxury. I never considered the FE to be worth the extra cost, even before the price reductions and I had zero interest in leasing. Your complaints here are valid and you made the right choice for yourself not to take delivery.

Right now Ford is selling the Mach E as fast as it can build them, or as close to that as makes no difference to them. They are not motivated to discount it or offer leasing incentives. As others have pointed out that may change over time, but it is what it is for now. That Audi and Jaguar and GM need to throw massive cash on the hood of their various EV models is not a guarantee that Ford will be similarly unsuccessful, but rather that the general public didn't consider their models compelling anywhere near MSRP. FWIW I think I got full value for my money and I think I made the right choice for myself to take delivery.

I guess my issue with all of these arguments is that you've now seemingly dedicated your time here to trying to convince us all that we're wrong based on your own criteria of needing a competitive lease and a car that is on-par, luxury-wise, with a similarly-priced ICE vehicle.

As someone who for over 30 years have been leasing luxury cars, I can speak with some degree of knowledge.

When a car crosses the $50k threshold it moves into the luxury category. While you may not think the MME is a luxury car it is priced like a luxury car. So many of the posters on this forum, myself included are former owners of Mustangs - in my case a 1966 GT convertible and a 1990 GT Convertible. If I had to guess the average age is north of 60 years. Many of us, again myself included, are buying nostalgia. FYI, if this was a Camaro I would have zero interest.

Going forward for the MME to be successful it will need to appeal to a more diversified base.

To that diversified base, the name Mustang will mean far, far less than it does to us. To my children ages 38 to 43, the name Mustang means nothing. When they think of EV's they think of Tesla.

They will cross shop both ICE and EV's in the $50,000 range including the Model Y, and the new cars from Audi, BMW and Mercedes, Volvo and VW.

When you go above $50,000 for a car the percentage of cars leased goes up dramatically - usually north of 50%.. In all likelihood, many will be coming out leases and will only lease. All manufacturers will be offering competitive leases.

To that broader and diversified base, monthly lease payments will be one of the deciding factors in choosing their next car.

I also believe that many on this forum have never leased or prefer not to lease - some think it is "going into debt" so the fact the Ford does not offer a competitive lease has no effect. If your intention all along was to buy, then the Option Plan with the incentives and ability to pay off without penalty or straight financing at .9% makes perfect sense.
 

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I absolutely was willing to pay a premium to go electric and I never expected the MME to be a luxury car. A luxury-adjacent car, which it is, but not luxury. I never considered the FE to be worth the extra cost, even before the price reductions and I had zero interest in leasing. Your complaints here are valid and you made the right choice for yourself not to take delivery.

Right now Ford is selling the Mach E as fast as it can build them, or as close to that as makes no difference to them. They are not motivated to discount it or offer leasing incentives. As others have pointed out that may change over time, but it is what it is for now. That Audi and Jaguar and GM need to throw massive cash on the hood of their various EV models is not a guarantee that Ford will be similarly unsuccessful, but rather that the general public didn't consider their models compelling anywhere near MSRP. FWIW I think I got full value for my money and I think I made the right choice for myself to take delivery.

I guess my issue with all of these arguments is that you've now seemingly dedicated your time here to trying to convince us all that we're wrong based on your own criteria of needing a competitive lease and a car that is on-par, luxury-wise, with a similarly-priced ICE vehicle.
Everyone has reasons for their own purchase decisions. We needed a car (actually back in Dec when my wife returned her lease, borrowed our in-laws 2nd car while they've been Wintering in FL for a few months), the MME fit the need and we were willing to take whatever early adopter risk and price premium for it when we took delivery. I assure everyone that we are not stupid, financially irresponsible people. 😁😁

If one looks at "dealer inventory" on the Ford website, most MMEs available are dealer ordered, almost all of them are still in transit. There are some MMEs that aren't dealer ordered that are for reservation holders (the way the system works is that as the VIN is available, even on a reservation, it enters the dealers system). There may be dealers with MMEs on the lot for sale but in my case, none of the dealers within a 30 mile radius actually have an MME on the lot. They are all listed as "In Transit".

That said, the data at this point is meaningless as it's still very early and the real production and sales ramp is through 2-3Q 2021. MME days to turn for Feb was 7 days, In comparation, C8 Corvettes are at 13 days. The MME mostly because that's how long it takes for the dealer to prep, schedule and deliver to reservation holders + sell any cancellations to "walk-ins". The C8 Corvette because that's how long it takes to move the car with exorbitant markups (still the fastest selling car as MMEs deliveries were still low enough that it doesn't make the days to turn list).

In another month or two... If dealer ordered and cancelled customer ordered MMEs are lingering on the lot for 30 days or more, there may be discounts but as I've said, Ford can prioritize deliveries in other geos.

The 500lb gorilla is the chip shortage. If it persists through 2021, Ford will allocate them to the more profitable models... basically the F150. This is a embedded microcontroller, a Renesas part.... costs like $1.50.... But there are a TON of them in every car. This video is a good illustration. 38 modules in the MME.

 

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When a car crosses the $50k threshold it moves into the luxury category. While you may not think the MME is a luxury car it is priced like a luxury car.
That is what's called an opinion. I'm coming off a string of luxury leases and I am absolutely not opposed to it, I just made a personal decision to buy this time around (before I'd even settled on the Mach E). I think your bar for luxury is arbitrary, especially in a market where the average cost of a new car sold has passed $35K.

Lots of things add to the price of a new vehicle. Is a Chevy Silverado a luxury car? It's easy to configure north of $50K. In the Mach E's case there is still a premium for BEVs that drives the Mach E's price beyond your magic number.

The Mach E is priced like a nicely-appointed BEV, which it is.
 
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