[Gmoney]

The only issue I have with everyone's math is the inclusion of the Tax credit in it's full amount. Due to the financing options and no lease, you cannot factor the Tax credit into the cost.

Assuming you receive the car after Jan 1 2021 - You won't even see this credit until year 2 and change, assuming you receive the entirety of the credit. Without a "true" lease, the $7,500 becomes a mute point as to my knowledge, it cannot be applied since no one can predict how much of it the buyer will receive.

So you're numbers should look like this:

Premium AWD LR (space white) MSRP - $54,700 (found out by trying to place new order)

Federal Tax Credit - N/A year 1
NJ EV rebate - ($5,000)
NJ Sales Tax exemption @ 6.625% - ($3,625)

Total savings - ($8,625)

Effective MSRP compared to combustion engine - $46,075
Year 2 savings of up to $7,500.


Am I wrong on this? This feels more like a solar loan where you don't feel the credit until the next years taxes, but the 7500 is not guaranteed in it's full amount. Unlike the Solar where the % is guaranteed and can be applied to the loan to keep payments down.

It’s a tax credit and you need to have a tax liability in the year you purchased the vehicle. It’s not cash refund that you get back in the following year.

Yes there are several ways that you could potentially obtain the full tax credit. However, You will need to speak with a tax professional on the best method for you given your current tax situation.
I just ordered MME last night I read about 50,000 production limit. If Ford converted a lot of the MME reservations to orders and they achieved the production limit Its unheard of reducing their pricing.
Auto industry is having a U shape recovery due to CoVID. I suspect that a lot of reservations have not been converted it’s a $50k+ car. OR a lot of people canceled their exciting orders.

Bottom line, Ford is concerned about their stock price and returning value to their investors. They will paint a rosy picture with figures. Typically, you would want to listen to Fords quarterly investor call to get details from the c-level execs. However, a car yet to sell will be fluffed up on investor calls . The order deposits go to the dealer you selected not Ford so it won’t show up on Ford financials. Also, pricing is not finalized until the car is delivered. Based on limit demos there will be some order back outs and on the lot. So people who have ordered and are still waiting for they’re car to hit the production line will get a call from the dealer asking if you want that vehicle instead. Most car dealership have floor plan with manufacture and don’t technically own the New vehicles. Car dealership don’t making money on new vehicles. They make money on selling used cars and maintenance. Sometime used cars can be marked up 8k over trade-in. So any last minute MME back outs at the dealership (there will be) won’t probably have a potential adjusted mark up. Entice the people waiting for their car to be manufactured to buy now instead of waiting. Any new vehicle on lot goes against their floor plan set up with Ford. Unless Ford for some reason has the dealer send the vehicle back if not delivered. Typically, with leases Expire the vehicle goes directly back to the manufacture and the manufacture will sell at auction unless dealer purchases the vehicle at the capitalized cost.

 

[Gmoney]

It’s a tax credit and you need to have a tax liability in the year you purchased the vehicle. It’s not cash refund that you get back in the following year.

Yes there are several ways that you could potentially obtain the full tax credit. However, You will need to speak with a tax professional on the best method for you given your current tax situation.
I just ordered MME last night I read about 50,000 production limit. If Ford converted a lot of the MME reservations to orders and they achieved the production limit Its unheard of reducing their pricing.
Auto industry is having a U shape recovery due to CoVID. I suspect that a lot of reservations have not been converted it’s a $50k+ car. OR a lot of people canceled their exciting orders.

Bottom line, Ford is concerned about their stock price and returning value to their investors. They will paint a rosy picture with figures. Typically, you would want to listen to Fords quarterly investor call to get details from the c-level execs. However, a car yet to sell will be fluffed up on investor calls . The order deposits go to the dealer you selected not Ford so it won’t show up on Ford financials. Also, pricing is not finalized until the car is delivered. Based on limit demos there will be some order back outs and on the lot. So people who have ordered and are still waiting for they’re car to hit the production line will get a call from the dealer asking if you want that vehicle instead. Most car dealership have floor plan with manufacture and don’t technically own the New vehicles. Car dealership don’t making money on new vehicles. They make money on selling used cars and maintenance. Sometime used cars can be marked up 8k over trade-in. So any last minute MME back outs at the dealership (there will be) won’t probably have a potential adjusted mark up. Entice the people waiting for their car to be manufactured to buy now instead of waiting. Any new vehicle on lot goes against their floor plan set up with Ford. Unless Ford for some reason has the dealer send the vehicle back if not delivered. Typically, with leases Expire the vehicle goes directly back to the manufacture and the manufacture will sell at auction unless dealer purchases the vehicle at the capitalized cost.

there are going limit production by package level. I believe the FE and premium are set to Start to deliver in December. Select and California will start to deliver in beginning of the year. Less demand.

Sounds like a lot of people ordered/reserved the Premium MME. Therefore, delivery on that vehicle might be slower than the other levels.
I received several calls from dealer today. Salesperson and then the sales manager. Then salesperson was blowing me up Texting. I ordered the California MME. Does it mean anything probably not.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I am curious as to why you need AWD in NC?

I live in Hawaii and have ordered an AWD MME. I also have trouble distinguishing between “wants” and “needs” apparently. The whole MME is a “want”

 

[JTK44]

It’s a tax credit and you need to have a tax liability in the year you purchased the vehicle. It’s not cash refund that you get back in the following year.

Yes there are several ways that you could potentially obtain the full tax credit. However, You will need to speak with a tax professional on the best method for you given your current tax situation.
I just ordered MME last night I read about 50,000 production limit. If Ford converted a lot of the MME reservations to orders and they achieved the production limit Its unheard of reducing their pricing.
Auto industry is having a U shape recovery due to CoVID. I suspect that a lot of reservations have not been converted it’s a $50k+ car. OR a lot of people canceled their exciting orders.

Bottom line, Ford is concerned about their stock price and returning value to their investors. They will paint a rosy picture with figures. Typically, you would want to listen to Fords quarterly investor call to get details from the c-level execs. However, a car yet to sell will be fluffed up on investor calls . The order deposits go to the dealer you selected not Ford so it won’t show up on Ford financials. Also, pricing is not finalized until the car is delivered. Based on limit demos there will be some order back outs and on the lot. So people who have ordered and are still waiting for they’re car to hit the production line will get a call from the dealer asking if you want that vehicle instead. Most car dealership have floor plan with manufacture and don’t technically own the New vehicles. Car dealership don’t making money on new vehicles. They make money on selling used cars and maintenance. Sometime used cars can be marked up 8k over trade-in. So any last minute MME back outs at the dealership (there will be) won’t probably have a potential adjusted mark up. Entice the people waiting for their car to be manufactured to buy now instead of waiting. Any new vehicle on lot goes against their floor plan set up with Ford. Unless Ford for some reason has the dealer send the vehicle back if not delivered. Typically, with leases Expire the vehicle goes directly back to the manufacture and the manufacture will sell at auction unless dealer purchases the vehicle at the capitalized cost.

You posted:

"If Ford converted a lot of the MME reservations to orders and they achieved the production limit Its unheard of reducing their pricing. Auto industry is having a U shape recovery due to CoVID. I suspect that a lot of reservations have not been converted it’s a $50k+ car. OR a lot of people canceled their exciting orders."
​

and

"Also, pricing is not finalized until the car is delivered. Based on limit demos there will be some order back outs and on the lot."​

In your opinion which is it:

• All MME are spoken for and there will be no price reduction:
• Or orders have not been converted and/or there will order back outs and MME will sitting on the dealers lot which traditionally means discounting?

 

[pca371]

Also better overall ability to control the car. I live in NorCal and for me AWD is a safety issue more than anything. The more traction the better.

I'm a happy driver of RWD cars in snowy Buffalo, NY. RWD is just fine in any climate if you're used to it and understand the differences in how you control the vehicle. BEV are different, though. In the case of the MME, AWD = more motors = more go. It's not strictly a control issue, AWD is a true performance option.

 

[Gmoney]

You posted:

"If Ford converted a lot of the MME reservations to orders and they achieved the production limit Its unheard of reducing their pricing. Auto industry is having a U shape recovery due to CoVID. I suspect that a lot of reservations have not been converted it’s a $50k+ car. OR a lot of people canceled their exciting orders."
​

and

"Also, pricing is not finalized until the car is delivered. Based on limit demos there will be some order back outs and on the lot."​

In your opinion which is it:

• All MME are spoken for and there will be no price reduction:
• Or orders have not been converted and/or there will order back outs and MME will sitting on the dealers lot which traditionally means discounting?

2nd bullet point. They probably won’t sit on the lot too long. Most dealers will probably call people who are waiting for their order to be fulfilled first. You probably won’t see an adjusted mark up. Electric cars represent 2% of automobile market. So there won’t be 6 MME sitting on a lot at a any given time due to order back outs.

 

[MachDrive]

It’s a tax credit and you need to have a tax liability in the year you purchased the vehicle. It’s not cash refund that you get back in the following year.

Yes there are several ways that you could potentially obtain the full tax credit. However, You will need to speak with a tax professional on the best method for you given your current tax situation.
I just ordered MME last night I read about 50,000 production limit. If Ford converted a lot of the MME reservations to orders and they achieved the production limit Its unheard of reducing their pricing.
Auto industry is having a U shape recovery due to CoVID. I suspect that a lot of reservations have not been converted it’s a $50k+ car. OR a lot of people canceled their exciting orders.

Bottom line, Ford is concerned about their stock price and returning value to their investors. They will paint a rosy picture with figures. Typically, you would want to listen to Fords quarterly investor call to get details from the c-level execs. However, a car yet to sell will be fluffed up on investor calls . The order deposits go to the dealer you selected not Ford so it won’t show up on Ford financials. Also, pricing is not finalized until the car is delivered. Based on limit demos there will be some order back outs and on the lot. So people who have ordered and are still waiting for they’re car to hit the production line will get a call from the dealer asking if you want that vehicle instead. Most car dealership have floor plan with manufacture and don’t technically own the New vehicles. Car dealership don’t making money on new vehicles. They make money on selling used cars and maintenance. Sometime used cars can be marked up 8k over trade-in. So any last minute MME back outs at the dealership (there will be) won’t probably have a potential adjusted mark up. Entice the people waiting for their car to be manufactured to buy now instead of waiting. Any new vehicle on lot goes against their floor plan set up with Ford. Unless Ford for some reason has the dealer send the vehicle back if not delivered. Typically, with leases Expire the vehicle goes directly back to the manufacture and the manufacture will sell at auction unless dealer purchases the vehicle at the capitalized cost.

Welcome to the Club, @Gmoney

For a good estimate of the Federal EV tax credit savings, everyone can use their 2019 tax liability as an example of what they could get back from buying the MMe (assuming their financial situation is similar to 2019). If they paid more than $7,500, after deductions, they could potentially get the full credit. If someone paid, for example, $750 in Federal taxes in 2019, that’s all they should expect to get back.

The MSRP reduction doesn’t come from lack of demand, it is more to keep in-line with near-term competition. VW ID.4, Teslas earlier Model Y MSRP redux, Nissan Ariya are good examples. I assume it was to retain existing pre-orders and reservations. Also, many reservation holders have not converted yet, they are waiting for the official EPA numbers, test drives, and reviews.

In Ford’s Investors calls, they are very cautious whenever they address the MMe. They ‘expect’ this or are ‘optimistic’ about that. It feels like they are approaching the entire thing as under promise/over deliver.

The initial first-year MMe run, including the GT, was targeted for 50,000 units worldwide. They have surpassed that number with pre-orders and reservations. Yet, these don’t count until the consumers actually take delivery. I hope Ford Credit comes up with viable leasing solutions or modifies the Ford Options plan to help ‘seal the deal’ for some of their customers not willing to own.

For your California Rt1 edition, it could very well be you jump the line over the masses who ordered the Premium AWD. This could be related to ‘commodity availability’. The most prominent being the front motor. If they are back-logged with the front motor, Ford can keep the line running by building RWD units only. Motor availability is just speculation on my part.

i would love to see my MMe this year, but it looks less and less so.

 

[Gilles]

Welcome to the Club, @Gmoney

For a good estimate of the Federal EV tax credit savings, everyone can use their 2019 tax liability as an example of what they could get back from buying the MMe (assuming their financial situation is similar to 2019). If they paid more than $7,500, after deductions, they could potentially get the full credit. If someone paid, for example, $750 in Federal taxes in 2019, that’s all they should expect to get back.

The MSRP reduction doesn’t come from lack of demand, it is more to keep in-line with near-term competition. VW ID.4, Teslas earlier Model Y MSRP redux, Nissan Ariya are good examples. I assume it was to retain existing pre-orders and reservations. Also, many reservation holders have not converted yet, they are waiting for the official EPA numbers, test drives, and reviews.

In Ford’s Investors calls, they are very cautious whenever they address the MMe. They ‘expect’ this or are ‘optimistic’ about that. It feels like they are approaching the entire thing as under promise/over deliver.

The initial first-year MMe run, including the GT, was targeted for 50,000 units worldwide. They have surpassed that number with pre-orders and reservations. Yet, these don’t count until the consumers actually take delivery. I hope Ford Credit comes up with viable leasing solutions or modifies the Ford Options plan to help ‘seal the deal’ for some of their customers not willing to own.

For your California Rt1 edition, it could very well be you jump the line over the masses who ordered the Premium AWD. This could be related to ‘commodity availability’. The most prominent being the front motor. If they are back-logged with the front motor, Ford can keep the line running by building RWD units only. Motor availability is just speculation on my part.

i would love to see my MMe this year, but it looks less and less so.

Could explain why I have a November build date for my RWD.

 

[Giddyup]

Regarding my preference for the AWD - I live in western North Carolina - up at 2,500' elevation. We do get snow, and some of the mountain roads I drive are not always that great. The reassurance that AWD brings to me is peace of mind (my other two vehicles are VW Touareg and Audi Q3/Quattro).

 

[Gilles]

These are perfectly good reasons to get the AWD.

 

[DavidG]

I just messaged Ford Canada via Facebook, hopefully they'll answer me back

Hi. Did you ever get an answer back from Ford on whether these price reductions will apply in Canada? I put a down payment on a premium addition in November 2019. My sales guy has not really offered much information since.

 

[Gilles]

No, as far as I can see, the price on the web is about $750 less than what was on my original order. My dealer said she did not know what the exact price would be until they get the invoice for the car. They will then apply any reduction if applicable. As of earlier this week, my MME was marked as "manufactured, not released for shipping". We don't know why the delay?

 

[kdryden99]

Hi. Did you ever get an answer back from Ford on whether these price reductions will apply in Canada? I put a down payment on a premium addition in November 2019. My sales guy has not really offered much information since.

If you compare right now the u.s. to canada on the website wigh the exchange, its the right price. There wont be much of price drop. Right now what concerns me more is the lease terms in Canada. Its not looking good but ill wait until i see the dealer for the final numbers.

 

[kdryden99]

No, as far as I can see, the price on the web is about $750 less than what was on my original order. My dealer said she did not know what the exact price would be until they get the invoice for the car. They will then apply any reduction if applicable. As of earlier this week, my MME was marked as "manufactured, not released for shipping". We don't know why the delay?

The delay is due Ford having to deal with Covid in planning shipping, plus irs the holidays. A plan which is good one week can fall apart the week after due to preventative measures.

 

[JTK44]

If you compare right now the u.s. to canada on the website wigh the exchange, its the right price. There wont be much of price drop. Right now what concerns me more is the lease terms in Canada. Its not looking good but ill wait until i see the dealer for the final numbers.

At the present time, and since no one yet has received their MME, this may change when the MME starts to be delivered, for the US on a lease for 10K miles, 36 months, tier 1 credit, residual 57% interest 5.4%, no Federal Tax Credit as a cap cost reduction the monthly payments for my FE Rapid Red will be $882 a month plus NY State taxes, which brings the monthly total to $964.

This puts the monthly lease payments higher than a fully equipped BMW X5, Mercedes GLE, Mercedes E450 and BMW 540 iXdrive, all of which cost between $65,000 and $75,000.

I agree: leasing a MME is not looking good

 

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Not a whole lot of new info here but this shows how the $7,500 tax credit gets applied to the Mach-E.

 

[JTK44]

Not a whole lot of new info here but this shows how the $7,500 tax credit gets applied to the Mach-E.

View attachment 3766

ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!

This is an insult to anyone’s intelligence!

A lease for three years should cost than financing the car.

Here under the Option Plan the three year cost vs. leasing is almost $5,000 less.

Only an idiot would lease when they could own for less.

It seems patently clear that Ford only wants to sell the MME thereby completely shifting the burden of depreciation to the buyer.

If Ford has ZERO confidence in the value three year’s from now of the MME, then why should I?

 

[Mgayle83]

ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!

This is an insult to anyone’s intelligence!

A lease for three years should cost than financing the car.

Here under the Option Plan the three year cost vs. leasing is almost $5,000 less.

Only an idiot would lease when they could own for less.

It seems patently clear that Ford only wants to sell the MME thereby completely shifting the burden of depreciation to the buyer.

If Ford has ZERO confidence in the value three year’s from now of the MME, then why should I?

That is just Ford Marketing, which they are doing a great job with. With the options plan, after you pay the $27,000 but you get the federal tax credit, you will still have an 18,000 dollar balloon payment if you want to keep the car. if you do not pay it then you have to give the car back. If someone does not qualify for the full $7,500 then they may be paying the same or more than someone leasing it. You should consider the options and leasing the same. the difference is one gives you a fed tax credit and a path to ownership.

 

[JTK44]

. You should consider the options and leasing the same. the difference is one gives you a fed tax credit and a path to ownership.

Sorry I must totally disagree:


What you are not understanding is that every other manufacturer in their lease, puts the Federal Tax Credit of $7,500 into the lease as a Cap Cost Reduction.

Under Ford's RCL, Ford Financial is keeping the Federal Tax Credit.

In the Ford Option plan, you must have a tax liability of $7,500 to get the full benefit of the Federal Tax Credit.

If the Federal Tax Credit of $7,500 is put into the lease as a cap cost reduction, then everyone who leases, regardless of their tax liability, would get the benefit of the Federal Tax credit.

As I posted, no one in their right mind will every lease the MME without the Federal Tax Credit in the lease.

At this point Ford feels the demand for the MME is so great that they do not have to offer a lease.

Time will tell if Ford is right or wrong.

 

[Mgayle83]

Sorry I must totally disagree:


What you are not understanding is that every other manufacturer in their lease, puts the Federal Tax Credit of $7,500 into the lease as a Cap Cost Reduction.

Under Ford's RCL, Ford Financial is keeping the Federal Tax Credit.

In the Ford Option plan, you must have a tax liability of $7,500 to get the full benefit of the Federal Tax Credit.

If the Federal Tax Credit of $7,500 is put into the lease as a cap cost reduction, then everyone who leases, regardless of their tax liability, would get the benefit of the Federal Tax credit.

As I posted, no one in their right mind will every lease the MME without the Federal Tax Credit in the lease.

At this point Ford feels the demand for the MME is so great that they do not have to offer a lease.

Time will tell if Ford is right or wrong.

I see what you mean. I was not aware. I thought if you leased you missed out on the tax credit. Well I guess with the MME you do.