Mach-E Forum | Ford Mustang Mach-E Forum and News banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
A full-self-driving Mustang Mach-E is a long way out from ever happening but whats coming is a limited hands-free highway driving system. MY2021 Mach-E's could have them from what I hear. For now, 2020 MME's get some very common active driving aid systems like automatic emergency braking, adaptive cruise control and lane-centering assist.

Compared to Tesla, who has made promises for an incremental roll out of self-driving features and followed through on them, Ford is well behind as they haven't rolled out anything. The Mach-E would have been the first Ford to get the tech or hardware to allow it.

To the MME community, are autonomous driving features important to you, or do they not influence your purchase decision much? How much extra would you pay for a full level 5 autonomous driving system?

The chart below gives us a look at the future, showing features of Self-Driving Levels 1-5. Level 3 capability is slowly becoming an industry norm, Tesla and Volvo are examples of that.

SAE Self-Driving Levels Chart
j3016-levels-of-driving-automation-12-10.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
I'm looking forward to all the ADAS features that Ford's promoted for the MME. They'll be a huge step up from my current car for both safety and ease of driving. In 2015, I rented a Volvo XC90 with many of today's now fairly common ADAS features and was really impressed.

I guess the biggest ADAS functions I'm looking forward to are the autonomous emergency braking, adaptive cruise control with stop and go, reverse emergency braking, cross traffic alert, auto high beams, traffic sign recognition, and the 360 degree parking camera.

I'm not sure I understand your comparison to Tesla. Based on the chart you've provided, Tesla's delivered to its customers level two automation at best -- same as Ford and most other major manufacturers today. They've promised and sold "full self driving" but in what situation is it safe to drive hands free in a Tesla vehicle? The only hands free systems I'm aware of for regular road vehicles are in some Cadillacs and maybe just rolling out (or soon to arrive) in some Nissans. Other than that is the hands free highway driving that Ford has promised as an OTA update for next year.
 

·
Registered
e-Golf
Joined
·
46 Posts
I guess the biggest ADAS functions I'm looking forward to are the autonomous emergency braking, adaptive cruise control with stop and go, reverse emergency braking, cross traffic alert, auto high beams, traffic sign recognition, and the 360 degree parking camera.
In my e-Golf i have all of these except the 360, just a regular rear view camera plus active lane assist and this is the second version of most functions, as my previous Golf had some but not as well executed.

So if well executed these are sufficient for most drives and i like to drive the car myself...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
341 Posts
A full-self-driving Mustang Mach-E is a long way out from ever happening but whats coming is a limited hands-free highway driving system. MY2021 Mach-E's could have them from what I hear. For now, 2020 MME's get some very common active driving aid systems like automatic emergency braking, adaptive cruise control and lane-centering assist.

Compared to Tesla, who has made promises for an incremental roll out of self-driving features and followed through on them, Ford is well behind as they haven't rolled out anything. The Mach-E would have been the first Ford to get the tech or hardware to allow it.

To the MME community, are autonomous driving features important to you, or do they not influence your purchase decision much? How much extra would you pay for a full level 5 autonomous driving system?

The chart below gives us a look at the future, showing features of Self-Driving Levels 1-5. Level 3 capability is slowly becoming an industry norm, Tesla and Volvo are examples of that.

SAE Self-Driving Levels Chart
View attachment 1370
SAE has stated that no consumer vehicle currently in production meets level 3 standards. Level 2, where the driver must be attentive at all times and ready to take over, is what Tesla’s systems qualify as. Tesla systems are more advanced than most, so maybe they sit at a symbolic 2.5 level.
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
75 Posts
You posted:

"I guess the biggest ADAS functions I'm looking forward to are the autonomous emergency braking, adaptive cruise control with stop and go, reverse emergency braking, cross traffic alert, auto high beams, traffic sign recognition, and the 360 degree parking camera. "

All of these features, except stop and go and traffic sign recognition, are already on my 2018 Ford Edge Sport. Stop and go is already on the 2019 and 2020 Ford Edge Sport.

I have traffic speed limit sign recognition on my 2019 Mercedes. Like 98% of Mercedes drivers, I have turned this feature off. Who actually goes the speed limit on an interstate?

The features I like and use most are:

  • Adaptive cruise control: use all the time on long trips
  • Emergency braking (fortunately have not needed)
  • Reverse emergency braking: Very important
  • auto high beams
  • cross traffic alert
  • Stop and go (on my Mercedes)
  • Lane warning departure: I use on Ford as it gently nudges you back into the lane. I have turned if off on my Mercedes because if you do not take immediate corrective action, the car slams on the brakes. If someone is close behind you, he could ram into. On the Mercedes it is far too intrusive.
  • 360 degree camera
I have used parking assist, once in each of my cars, to make sure it works. I have never used it again. Far too complicated and slow. Much easier to just back into the spot. IMO, a totally worthless option.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
341 Posts
You posted:

"I guess the biggest ADAS functions I'm looking forward to are the autonomous emergency braking, adaptive cruise control with stop and go, reverse emergency braking, cross traffic alert, auto high beams, traffic sign recognition, and the 360 degree parking camera. "

All of these features, except stop and go and traffic sign recognition, are already on my 2018 Ford Edge Sport. Stop and go is already on the 2019 and 2020 Ford Edge Sport.

I have traffic speed limit sign recognition on my 2019 Mercedes. Like 98% of Mercedes drivers, I have turned this feature off. Who actually goes the speed limit on an interstate?

The features I like and use most are:

  • Adaptive cruise control: use all the time on long trips
  • Emergency braking (fortunately have not needed)
  • Reverse emergency braking: Very important
  • auto high beams
  • cross traffic alert
  • Stop and go (on my Mercedes)
  • Lane warning departure: I use on Ford as it gently nudges you back into the lane. I have turned if off on my Mercedes because if you do not take immediate corrective action, the car slams on the brakes. If someone is close behind you, he could ram into. On the Mercedes it is far too intrusive.
  • 360 degree camera
I have used parking assist, once in each of my cars, to make sure it works. I have never used it again. Far too complicated and slow. Much easier to just back into the spot. IMO, a totally worthless option.
According to Ford, all the above are available. Plus:
  • lane-centering system. Will steer the vehicle at highway speeds to maintain your lane under certain driving conditions without the need to touch the wheel. (You have to be looking at the road, though)
  • speed sign recognition
  • emergency evasive steering assist
  • post-collision braking - stops the vehicle from rolling after a collision (hopefully we will never use this one)
  • active parking assist (Premium and above)
  • 360 camera (Premium and above)
link detailing features:
Mach-E driver-assist technologies

Something I was wondering about: would cars without the 360 camera system not be able to get the enhanced self-driving that Ford said is ‘down-the-road’?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
I'm not sure I understand your comparison to Tesla. Based on the chart you've provided, Tesla's delivered to its customers level two automation at best -- same as Ford and most other major manufacturers today. They've promised and sold "full self driving" but in what situation is it safe to drive hands free in a Tesla vehicle? The only hands free systems I'm aware of for regular road vehicles are in some Cadillacs and maybe just rolling out (or soon to arrive) in some Nissans. Other than that is the hands free highway driving that Ford has promised as an OTA update for next year.
I think Tesla has Level 2.1. You must always be alert, but the car will take you from On ramp, freeway, to off ramp. It will also do automatic lane changes. So while the level of autonomy is higher than 2 (I think) the level of perfection does not reach Level 3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
Something I was wondering about: would cars without the 360 camera system not be able to get the enhanced self-driving that Ford said is ‘down-the-road’?
That is critical for me too. I am getting the select, but if i have to spring for the 360 camera for that i will.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I just read about how "Volkswagen Group and Ford Motor are pushing ahead with plans to team up on electric and self-driving vehicles even as the coronavirus derails other projects, according to people familiar with the matter." Chances are what will be in the Mach-E comes from this partnership.

Also,
"Ford's strategy has been set back by the viral outbreak, with a multi-city commercial rollout of robotaxis and driverless delivery pods in the U.S. delayed until 2022.

The company says it needs more time to assess the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on consumer attitudes toward self-driving and shared vehicles. It's also canceled plans to jointly develop an all-electric Lincoln model with Rivian Automotive."


 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
341 Posts
I just read about how "Volkswagen Group and Ford Motor are pushing ahead with plans to team up on electric and self-driving vehicles even as the coronavirus derails other projects, according to people familiar with the matter." Chances are what will be in the Mach-E comes from this partnership.

Also,
"Ford's strategy has been set back by the viral outbreak, with a multi-city commercial rollout of robotaxis and driverless delivery pods in the U.S. delayed until 2022.

The company says it needs more time to assess the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on consumer attitudes toward self-driving and shared vehicles. It's also canceled plans to jointly develop an all-electric Lincoln model with Rivian Automotive."


This article says VW is investing in Fords self-driving tech company, Argo AI. The Argo system was reported a few months ago to be the foundation of the systems in the Mach E.
The fact that VW partnered with Ford ahead of other companies with regard to self-driving may be an indication that the Argo system is ahead of other systems being developed (not counting Tesla).
The advanced 2.5 level self-driving aids will most likely be part of a future OTA update.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
This article says VW is investing in Fords self-driving tech company, Argo AI. The Argo system was reported a few months ago to be the foundation of the systems in the Mach E.
Where was this reported? I haven't heard that before, and would like to read more.

The fact that VW partnered with Ford ahead of other companies with regard to self-driving may be an indication that the Argo system is ahead of other systems being developed (not counting Tesla).
The advanced 2.5 level self-driving aids will most likely be part of a future OTA update.
Argo AI is one of the AV companies developing autonomous driving as a capability kit supplier. And they take safety seriously. These factors make them suitable partners for vehicle manufacturers like Ford or VW.

By comparison, Waymo, Uber, and others prefer to keep the end-item integration of their tech to themselves. It's possible that Waymo's further ahead of Argo AI. I'm not really sure. Each company takes a different approach to how they develop, test, deploy, and also how much information they share about what they've accomplished.

I don't group Tesla with AV companies. Tesla sells customers the promise of future "full self driving," while currently just providing a similar arrangement of ADAS capabilities as its competitors (GM, Nissan, etc.).
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
341 Posts
Where was this reported? I haven't heard that before, and would like to read more.
I remember coming across it in one of the many videos/articles in my hunt for more detail on the Mach E. It wasn’t much more than a reference similar to what i stated. I will try to go back and find it and post it here.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
341 Posts
Tesla seems to be looking at self-driving as a real cash cow.

TESLA FSD PRICE WILL INCREASE BY ~$1000 ON JULY 1ST
So now it will be $8000? Holy cow.
He is basically forcefully turning Full self-driving into fleet vehicles. By the time it reaches level 4 or 5, only the uber-rich will be able to afford a private self-driving car.

[stepping up on the soap-box]

I’m sorry, i don’t share Elon’s vision of shared vehicles to offset his greed. You know what the next step is. Elon will want a cut of every shared ride your FSD gives, even after you’ve paid hundreds of thousands for your vehicle. And you will only be able to subscribe to Tesla’s ride-share service. So you will have to pay for your car, FSD, Subscription, and a fee for each ride someone takes in your vehicle. There is no money to be made by the car owner, it may slightly off-set the exorbitant costs a bit. The only one making money off of your car (and your backs) in its lifetime will be Tesla.

[stepping down from the soap-box]

I hope Ford doesn’t charge extra for FSD updates, especially not $8,000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
The concept of imminent FSD - even at level 3, let alone proper FSD at level 4/5 amuses me no end. Listen to the professionals in the machine intelligence field (& not PT Barnum 'Elon' hyperbole) - we are a decade away at least - if not still decades. The following quotes from Elon are verifiably accurate - and always make me smile;
* "Within two years you'll be able to summon your car from across the country, '
Elon Musk, 10th January 2016
* “Full Self-Driving Capability would begin to become available in 3 months maybe, 6 months definitely.”
Elon Musk, 23rd January 2017
* “We will be feature complete — full self-driving — this year”
Elon Musk, 20th February 2019

(p.s. there is lots more of this BS out there if you search)
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top