[geronimo]

It was recently confirmed that the Mach-E will make its Texas debut at the Houston Auto Show, January 22-16, 2020.

 

[dbsb3233]

Yay! An appearance outside of California gives the rest of us some hope then. ?

 

[ReturnOfTheMack]

I imagine Ford is going to have one of the busiest booths at the show if the Mach-E is going to be there.

 

[dbsb3233]

I imagine Ford is going to have one of the busiest booths at the show if the Mach-E is going to be there.

I bet so too. Most of the public loves SUVs/crossovers. Many of us have been waiting for a good one in BEV form that doesn't break the bank. Helps that it's from a trusted US manufacturer too. (Not that Ford doesn't have it's haters, of course, but there's a reason that there millions of Escapes, Edges, Explorers, and Excursions on US roads).

 

[ReturnOfTheMack]

I bet so too. Most of the public loves SUVs/crossovers. Many of us have been waiting for a good one in BEV form that doesn't break the bank. Helps that it's from a trusted US manufacturer too. (Not that Ford doesn't have it's haters, of course, but there's a reason that there millions of Escapes, Edges, Explorers, and Excursions on US roads).

Yeah they've gone pretty much all in on SUVs and pickups. If it was a BEV sedan or hatchback I'd be very concerned lol

 

[zhackwyatt]

Yeah they've gone pretty much all in on SUVs and pickups. If it was a BEV sedan or hatchback I'd be very concerned lol

Yes, except I do think they are cheating with the name (SUV) some. Ford's website says: "100% SUV. 100% SOUL-STIRRING." "Back in my day" this is what a SUV looked like:

Something built on a truck chasis. Times have certainly changed.

 

[dbsb3233]

Yes, except I do think they are cheating with the name (SUV) some. Ford's website says: "100% SUV. 100% SOUL-STIRRING."

Completely agree. I've made the same point. This is at best a crossover. I know that "100% SUV" line is just marketing, but still. For a company that has a history of (arguably) being the best (mainstream) SUV manufacturer on the planet, I was disappointed to see them throw that line in there so cheaply.

 

[timbop]

Completely agree. I've made the same point. This is at best a crossover. I know that "100% SUV" line is just marketing, but still. For a company that has a history of (arguably) being the best (mainstream) SUV manufacturer on the planet, I was disappointed to see them throw that line in there so cheaply.

I don't think they threw it in there cheaply, nor do I think they "just smacked the mustang brand on it" on it either. Ford is cashing in all their chips with this vehicle, and I don't blame them. Clearly Ford understands that the days of the ICE are beginning to end, and they don't want to be left behind the way many other former blue chips have been under similar paradigm shifts (anyone remember those Scandanavian cell phone companies?). It is a "mustang inspired" and "SUV-ish" crossover, which for their first serious electric car is good enough to get Ford into the game against Tesla. If they really do sell 50,000 next year they'll be considered s serious BEV player and they'll be able to come out with a wider range to suit more specific tastes.

 

[dbsb3233]

I don't think they threw it in there cheaply, nor do I think they "just smacked the mustang brand on it" on it either. Ford is cashing in all their chips with this vehicle, and I don't blame them. Clearly Ford understands that the days of the ICE are beginning to end, and they don't want to be left behind the way many other former blue chips have been under similar paradigm shifts (anyone remember those Scandanavian cell phone companies?). It is a "mustang inspired" and "SUV-ish" crossover, which for their first serious electric car is good enough to get Ford into the game against Tesla. If they really do sell 50,000 next year they'll be considered s serious BEV player and they'll be able to come out with a wider range to suit more specific tastes.

You said it yourself -- it's (at best) an "SUV-ish" crossover. That's my point. Calling it "100% SUV" kinda cheapens the real meaning of true SUVs. Which Ford is the king of. It's also not believable to say "100% SUV" about the Mach-e. But marketing is famous for exaggerations, so it is what it is. Just kinda have to ignore the marketing exaggerations.

I sure wouldn't say the days of ICE are "coming to an end". But they are heading toward something like only a 50% market share in a few decades. BEVs are great for certain purposes, but they fall way short for other purposes. It would be a huge mistake to assume that they'll completely take over. Even though batteries will continue to improve, there's a ceiling on how much energy density you can realistically get. And on how fast they can safety charge. That means bigger vehicles and longer drives will continue to be a poor fit for BEV in general. There will continue to be a major market for ICE (and PHEV, which is also ICE) for many decades. It just won't be nearly 100% of the market anymore.

 

[timbop]

You said it yourself -- it's (at best) an "SUV-ish" crossover. That's my point. Calling it "100% SUV" kinda cheapens the real meaning of true SUVs. Which Ford is the king of. It's also not believable to say "100% SUV" about the Mach-e. But marketing is famous for exaggerations, so it is what it is. Just kinda have to ignore the marketing exaggerations.

I sure wouldn't say the days of ICE are "coming to an end". But they are heading toward something like only a 50% market share in a few decades. BEVs are great for certain purposes, but they fall way short for other purposes. It would be a huge mistake to assume that they'll completely take over. Even though batteries will continue to improve, there's a ceiling on how much energy density you can realistically get. And on how fast they can safety charge. That means bigger vehicles and longer drives will continue to be a poor fit for BEV in general. There will continue to be a major market for ICE (and PHEV, which is also ICE) for many decades. It just won't be nearly 100% of the market anymore.

YES, the Mach-E is not "really" an SUV. It is also not a coupe, which is what a Mustang has always been- thus Mach-E is not a "true" mustang. They are co-opting those terms in order to gain mindshare. It's what they need to do in order to break Tesla's stranglehold on not just the BEV market but the idea that "Tesla" and "BEV" are synonyms. I'm not sure if you saw the recent sales numbers for BEV's in 2019, but Tesla clearly owned the market.

Not to be argumentative, but the assumption that the current level of capability is "as good as it will get" is almost surely false. Not only will batteries continue to improve, but innovations that you and I cannot conceive of will occur - including completely different battery designs altogether. In the span of just 10 years range has increased significantly thanks to engineers AND business people "ignoring the impossible" and just doing what "couldn't be done". It may take 30 to 50 years, but the market MUST change from predominantly gasoline engines to something else. Not just because continuing to pump CO2 into the atmosphere will cause ECONOMIC havoc due to ECOLOGIC disruptions, but because the increasing pace of extracting that finite resource is unsustainable.

 

[Generaltso]

Ford's website says: "100% SUV.

I have no problem with them marketing it as an SUV, but then they better not tell us that we can’t tow with it.

 

[dbsb3233]

YES, the Mach-E is not "really" an SUV. It is also not a coupe, which is what a Mustang has always been- thus Mach-E is not a "true" mustang. They are co-opting those terms in order to gain mindshare. It's what they need to do in order to break Tesla's stranglehold on not just the BEV market but the idea that "Tesla" and "BEV" are synonyms. I'm not sure if you saw the recent sales numbers for BEV's in 2019, but Tesla clearly owned the market.

Not to be argumentative, but the assumption that the current level of capability is "as good as it will get" is almost surely false. Not only will batteries continue to improve, but innovations that you and I cannot conceive of will occur - including completely different battery designs altogether. In the span of just 10 years range has increased significantly thanks to engineers AND business people "ignoring the impossible" and just doing what "couldn't be done". It may take 30 to 50 years, but the market MUST change from predominantly gasoline engines to something else. Not just because continuing to pump CO2 into the atmosphere will cause ECONOMIC havoc due to ECOLOGIC disruptions, but because the increasing pace of extracting that finite resource is unsustainable.

Oh I like that they've created a half SUV/half Mustang. If I didn't I wouldn't have plunked down a $500 reservation. The point raised by zhackwyatt is that it's hardly "100% SUV" as Ford's marketing is saying. And he's right, it's obviously not. And it's kinda silly for them to claim it's "100% SUV". That line in their advertising will surely produce a lot of eye-rolls.

And if you read my post again you'll see I said just the opposite of current BEVs being "as good as it will get". Your reply doesn't even apply to what I said because I didn't say that. I explicitly said batteries will continue to improve.

But it would be a big mistake to say ICE is "coming to an end". It will shrink in market share, as I said. But hardly "end". There's a massive gap between 98% ICE share and 0% share. Ford will surely continue to manufacture and sell millions of ICE (and ICE hybrid) vehicles for a long time because batteries alone have inherent limitations, especially for larger vehicles and long distances. Plus vehicles last for 10+ years. So anyone expecting a quick transition away from ICE usage is being unrealistic. But there will be a gradual shift. Projections are for BEV sales to gain market share by a few% each year.

Now, at some point in the future some new energy source could be developed and perfected for automobiles (fuel cells, hydrogen, or something we don't even know of yet). But it takes decades for something like that to move the needle much. Plus personal automobile use may be significantly displaced by autonomous taxi services by 20 years from now anyway.

 

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Yes, except I do think they are cheating with the name (SUV) some. Ford's website says: "100% SUV. 100% SOUL-STIRRING." "Back in my day" this is what a SUV looked like:
View attachment 362

Something built on a truck chasis. Times have certainly changed.

I probably should've been clearer and said Crossovers, SUVs, and Pickups lol. But regardless Ford is clearly moving away from sedans and hatchbacks.

 

[zhackwyatt]

I probably should've been clearer and said Crossovers, SUVs, and Pickups lol. But regardless Ford is clearly moving away from sedans and hatchbacks.

I completely agree with you. They are killing the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, and Taurus. I was just commenting mostly on Ford calling this an SUV.

 

[ReturnOfTheMack]

I completely agree with you. They are killing the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, and Taurus. I was just commenting mostly on Ford calling this an SUV.

That's fair, I'm still used to SUVs being big vehicles on truck frames too. But like a lot of things in the car industry the definitions are changing.

 

[machstang]

Ford better be planning to let people test drive these at the show. It's what Chevy did back when the Bolt came out.

 

[Cowherd.J]

If anyone if keeping tabs on this, the Mach-E is now on display in Houston.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219873458739347462

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220012426982195201

 

[geronimo]

Houston Auto Show has a Star-White Mach-E Premium.
You can walk up, touch it, and look inside through the windows -- but all the doors, liftgate and frunk are locked. The 2 exhibitors showing it said they cannot get in themselves. It is a pre-production unit, so they are not allowing anyone to get inside. I asked if I could open the charging connector cover, and they said yes. It was the only "door" that wasn't locked.

Still, I was very pleased to actually see and touch one.
It looks better than it does in the photos.

 

[St00k]

Thanks for the update. Wish they'd let people inside, but I guess it's baby steps. I'm curious how many dealers have demo cars....

 

[geronimo]

Thanks for the update. Wish they'd let people inside, but I guess it's baby steps. I'm curious how many dealers have demo cars....

All EV-certified dealers will have a couple demos sometime after production begins. Currently "Job 1" is scheduled for June 20, 2020.
My understanding (from talking with my dealer) is that the initial production will be a small number of demos and then First Edition, followed by Premium trim. The dealers will get only a couple demos, but people can see and drive them before the first reserved production units are shipped.