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Nissan's Answer To The Tesla Model Y — The Electric Crossover Ariya — To Premier July 15
Benzinga EV Insights
BenzingaJuly 7, 2020, 5:35 PM EDT


The Tesla Inc (NASDAQ: TSLA) Model Y is about to have some serious competition. Nissan (OTC: NSANY) is set to premiere its first all-electric crossover vehicle, the Nissan Ariya, online on July 15.
What To Know: Very few details have been revealed about the Nissan Ariya, but it's expected to have nearly 300 miles of range, a sleek interior and an acceleration of 0-60 in five seconds.
It may also offer an all-wheel-drive option with motors in both the front and the rear. The price starts at $40,000, which makes this car more affordable than the $53,000 starting price of the Tesla Model Y. It will also qualify for the $7,500 federal tax credit, which the Model Y does not.
Why It's Important: The Ariya will include Nissan’s second generation of its ProPilot Assist self-driving technology, which furthers its competition with the Model Y. Like most electric vehicles, it will also feature regenerative breaking to increase electric efficiency.
- ADVERTISEMENT -

Production and sales of the Ariya are planned to begin in China in 2020 and the United States in 2021. For those searching for a more affordable all-electric crossover, the Ariya could be it.
Benzinga's Take: Tesla has proven its stance as the dominant leader of electric vehicles. Competition has been promised from other auto manufacturers for years, but so far nothing has come close to appealing for Tesla owners.
On paper, this new Nissan sounds great. But will it deliver?

see: Nissan's Answer To The Tesla Model Y — The Electric Crossover Ariya — To Premier July 15

and Car and Driver:

see: 2021 Nissan Ariya Review, Pricing, and Specs
 

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They're about 6 months too late with this announcement (should it come) for me. I'll be sticking with the MME order. :)

As for appealing to tesla owners, they're a small portion of the market. Manufacturers really want to appeal to not just tesla customers but a much larger segment of the potential BEV customers. But that's just me, I've been known to be wrong.
 

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What I note is the price and the range:

Once out, I expect Tesla to respond.

This is just the beginning of the wave of BEV.

As I have posted, my gut tells me that the MachE is an overpriced BEV. The sweet spot is $30/35,000 for BEV with a range of 300 miles. That price can be either the price as per Tesla, or the net price after Federal Tax Credits.

The Ariya fits perfectly into that category.
 

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Even though I'm converted to an order, I don't disagree that the MME is probably a bit over-priced. I think Ford also needs to worry about the performance of a Mustang at the price point. It will be interesting to see how the trims work out on the Nissan but I'd say Ford is missing the mark on their models. If they really end up mid-5 0-60 for instance on an AWD, it is not going to make much sense to me to be run away from by their own Ecoboost Mustang.
 

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I too have converted: Presently leasing my second Ford Edge Sport. With the Edge the leases were extremely (cheap) competitive. At the present time Tesla leases are not very competitive.

What I was hoping for with my First Edition was a car that was competitive with Model Y but with monthly lease payments considerable lower than on a comparably equipped Tesla.

Now we know that because of the Federal Tax Credit there will be no leases on the MachE. Instead of a lease, Ford is offering the "Ford Option Plan". Regardless of what it is called, what I am looking for are monthly payments that are lower than the lease payments on the Tesla.

Because the balloon (similar to the residual in a lease) is so low, the monthly payments instead of being less than a Tesla are more!

Of course any company can price their cars wherever they want: but given that Ford is late to the market, is offering a car with less range than a Tesla and slightly slower and technology behind Tesla, you would think that marketing would have insisted on a lower price not a higher price than a comparable Tesla.

Ford has time to come to their senses: Even thought I am a Ford stockholder, I really do not care if Ford wants to make a profit on each car they sell: I am not responsible for the MachE costing Ford as much as it does and evidently more than the Tesla.

Other than styling and the Ford network of dealers, some would say that is a disadvantage and not an advantage, in all other ways the Model Y is a better car with a proven record. Tesla is the leader.

I have my own company: when I want to break into a market, I have to give potential customers a reason to switch to me: either a better product or a similar product at a lower price.

What reason has Ford given me to get a Mustang First Edition over a Model Y?



.
 

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What interesting is that Nissan is planning to still use CHAdeMO charging for the Ariya. They really need to switch to CCS.

One disappointing piece of news for American customers is that the vehicle will stick with CHAdeMO, a charging standard that is not as widely distributed in the US as CCS, for example. There was the expectation Nissan would give it up. Well, it didn’t.

 

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Even though I'm converted to an order, I don't disagree that the MME is probably a bit over-priced. I think Ford also needs to worry about the performance of a Mustang at the price point. It will be interesting to see how the trims work out on the Nissan but I'd say Ford is missing the mark on their models. If they really end up mid-5 0-60 for instance on an AWD, it is not going to make much sense to me to be run away from by their own Ecoboost Mustang.
Many of us are betting the price will drop as soon as the $7500 tax credit is gone.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Do your really think there is $7,500 profit in the MachE?

If that happens the residual of in the balloon of 44% moves to 50% residual which is still very, very low which will still make the lease payments non competitive with Tesla and others.

If the price drops by $7,500 the later models, will in all probability, have longer range and more technology.

I ask myself, why the rush now to get one of the first ones out with all the growing pains of first year of production?

For me, based on the lease payments of my Edge, I was expecting a car similar to Tesla at a better price not the reverse.

I am waiting to see the MachE in person and drive one. Maybe it will be worth more than Model Y. If not I will cancel. My worst case scenario is the loss of my $500 deposit - which is not big deal and I do not think will happen - if I cancel I expect the dealer to refund.

I also remember originally posting, before the discussion of ADM, whether the dealers would discount the MachE.

As other manufacturers get into the BEV game, at lower price points with similar range and performance, that is becoming a distinct possibility!
 

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Even though I'm converted to an order, I don't disagree that the MME is probably a bit over-priced. I think Ford also needs to worry about the performance of a Mustang at the price point. It will be interesting to see how the trims work out on the Nissan but I'd say Ford is missing the mark on their models. If they really end up mid-5 0-60 for instance on an AWD, it is not going to make much sense to me to be run away from by their own Ecoboost Mustang.
Is anybody else thinking that the MME will come with better 0-60 times than the estimates suggest?
I recently drove a Mercedes EQC which goes from 0 to 60 in 4.9 seconds. Of course it has more HP, but it's also heavier than the MME. The EQC weighs about 5.500 lb
 

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Is anybody else thinking that the MME will come with better 0-60 times than the estimates suggest?
I recently drove a Mercedes EQC which goes from 0 to 60 in 4.9 seconds. Of course it has more HP, but it's also heavier than the MME. The EQC weighs about 5.500 lb
My speculation is that they won't at first but may improve it later as an OTA. I think its partially done this way to differentiate the AWD & GT versions. If the cars were close to the same acceleration as the GT, it would be much harder to justify the price point. They may also do it to help guarantee the range promise.
 

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Is anybody else thinking that the MME will come with better 0-60 times than the estimates suggest?
I recently drove a Mercedes EQC which goes from 0 to 60 in 4.9 seconds. Of course it has more HP, but it's also heavier than the MME. The EQC weighs about 5.500 lb
It might be better under certain conditions but I think it'll be close to what Ford is claiming. Not until the GT comes out at least, that's the one they want to show off all the performance capability.
 

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My speculation is that they won't at first but may improve it later as an OTA. I think its partially done this way to differentiate the AWD & GT versions. If the cars were close to the same acceleration as the GT, it would be much harder to justify the price point. They may also do it to help guarantee the range promise.
That's my speculation/hope too.
Maybe they will offer some kind of increased performance like Tesla did. For money of course...
 

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My speculation is that they won't at first but may improve it later as an OTA. I think its partially done this way to differentiate the AWD & GT versions. If the cars were close to the same acceleration as the GT, it would be much harder to justify the price point. They may also do it to help guarantee the range promise.
Yes, but all we have now are target times. We're still awaiting the real times and I expect them to be a touch better than the targets since the HP and torque went up ~10%.
 

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It might be better under certain conditions but I think it'll be close to what Ford is claiming. Not until the GT comes out at least, that's the one they want to show off all the performance capability.
I think they still can show off the GT performance if it goes from 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds. That would still be a difference if the AWD could hit it in 5 seconds. I just hope they'll do a bit better in real live as the published numbers are based on simulations I guess.
 

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@Chasing Coral
Fingers crossed you're right 😊 I know that's not the most important aspect of the MME, but it would be nice to undercut the estimates.
What a I saw on that video from GT spirit, looked pretty fast.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Range not 0-60 times is important to me.

My Mercedes has a reported 0-60 of 5.0 seconds.

Honestly I have never and will never verify those numbers.

But I can tell you its MPG on the open road at 65 mph: 32 mpg.

Range not 0-60 times is what is important to me.
 

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Range not 0-60 times is important to me.

My Mercedes has a reported 0-60 of 5.0 seconds.

Honestly I have never and will never verify those numbers.

But I can tell you its MPG on the open road at 65 mph: 32 mpg.

Range not 0-60 times is what is important to me.
Same here. I would forego a speed increase if it means i can get improved range out of the battery.

~5.5 seconds (ER/AWD) is fast enough for me. Most ICE cars i have had were in the 6+ second 0-60 range at best.
My current car is 7 seconds (eco off). And I haven’t went full-trottle more than two, maybe 3 times in a year.
 

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Same here. I would forego a speed increase if it means i can get improved range out of the battery.

~5.5 seconds (ER/AWD) is fast enough for me. Most ICE cars i have had were in the 6+ second 0-60 range at best.
My current car is 7 seconds (eco off). And I haven’t went full-trottle more than two, maybe 3 times in a year.
Agree. I still think the range will be more base on the battery pack. I mean that's way bigger battery than the Kona but have less range that's weird. I know the car is heavier but still. I just hope it's to keep the battery with the same range for a longer time. (Like they give us 75% of the battery to use). That's a point I will ask in the Q&A tomorrow for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Efficiency: The battery on the Model Y is 77 KW vs. 88 on the long range MachE, but the range is 315 miles vs. 270. Smaller but more efficient.

Similar to two engines producing the same amount of HP, but one gets 15 mpg while the other gets 20 mpg. The 20 mpg is the Model Y.

Yes you make the battery pack bigger. But the problem then is that it takes longer to charge for the same amount of miles, something to be considered if you are traveling and they weigh more which puts more wear and tear on tires and suspension parts.

Tesla keeps pushing battery development.

That is why I believe Tesla is 3 to 5 years ahead of Ford in technology. Ford and others may eventually catch up. Until then I was hoping that to satisfy us, the MachE would cost less not more than the Model Y.
 

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Efficiency: The battery on the Model Y is 77 KW vs. 88 on the long range MachE, but the range is 315 miles vs. 270. Smaller but more efficient.

Similar to two engines producing the same amount of HP, but one gets 15 mpg while the other gets 20 mpg. The 20 mpg is the Model Y.

Yes you make the battery pack bigger. But the problem then is that it takes longer to charge for the same amount of miles, something to be considered if you are traveling and they weigh more which puts more wear and tear on tires and suspension parts.

Tesla keeps pushing battery development.

That is why I believe Tesla is 3 to 5 years ahead of Ford in technology. Ford and others may eventually catch up. Until then I was hoping that to satisfy us, the MachE would cost less not more than the Model Y.
Tesla is know to give customer the full range of battery which is okay if you know and you won't charge 100% to damage your battery. Other manufacturer are hiding % of the battery to make sure customer don't overcharge them. I'm curious to know how much is hidden on the MME because for sure they will not let me charge up to 100%.
 
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