Mach-E Forum | Ford Mustang Mach-E Forum and News banner

21 - 40 of 62 Posts

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
360 Posts
The video does not include sales tax:

In New York:

  • If you buy the sales tax is on the sales price: $51,190 tax @8.625% = $4,415
  • On a lease the sum of the lease payments plus any deposit: $499 by 36, $17,964 + $4,500, $22,464 tax @8.65% = $1,938
There is a tax savings of $2,477

In New Jersey, EV's up to a MSRP of $55,000 are exempt from sales tax.

The real question is whether you think that after 3 years either the Model 3 or Y will have retained 77% of its value.

Keep in mind that on the Ford Option Plan the balloon, i.e., residual is at 43%.


.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
716 Posts
Everyone’s situation is different. In my case, in the State of NJ:

Tesla Model Y LR
  • Cash Price $51,990
  • Incentives -$5,000 (NJ, under $55k only)
  • Destination $1,200
  • No sales tax (no dollar cap)
  • Final cash price: $48,190
  • 36-Month lease payment $562 ($4,500 down)
Mustang Mach-E Premium (AWD/ER)
  • Cash Price $58,340
  • Incentives -$7,500 (fed)
  • Destination $1,100
  • No sales tax (no dollar cap)
  • Final cash price: $51,940
  • 36-month options payment $605. (Down payment is 4,500+7500 for fed credit=$12,000)
Prices as configured, the way i would buy them, blue metallic exterior and light interior.
Before Tesla dropped the price, there was only a $750 difference. Now, the cash price difference is $3,750.

Lease vs option difference is: $1,548.*

* If you plan on returning the MMe at options end, residual value is irrelevant compared to a Tesla lease, where you must return the car anyway.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
716 Posts
...In New Jersey, EV's up to a MSRP of $55,000 are exempt from sales tax...
FYI, there are two different NJ incentives:

1. a point-of-sale rebate of $5,000 on EVs that cost less than $55,000 MSRP. This went into effect this year. (This also gives you $500 towards the purchase and installation of a home charger.) Public Law 2019, c. 362

2. a sales tax exemption on ZEVs, No price cap. N.J.S.A. 54:32B-8.55
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
360 Posts
Everyone’s situation is different. In my case, in the State of NJ:

Tesla Model Y LR
  • Cash Price $51,990
  • Incentives -$5,000 (NJ, under $55k only)
  • Destination $1,200
  • No sales tax (no dollar cap)
  • Final cash price: $48,190
  • 36-Month lease payment $562 ($4,500 down)
Mustang Mach-E Premium (AWD/ER)
  • Cash Price $58,340
  • Incentives -$7,500 (fed)
  • Destination $1,100
  • No sales tax (no dollar cap)
  • Final cash price: $51,940
  • 36-month options payment $605. (Down payment is 4,500+7500 for fed credit=$12,000)
Prices as configured, the way i would buy them, blue metallic exterior and light interior.
Before Tesla dropped the price, there was only a $750 difference. Now, the cash price difference is $3,750.

Lease vs option difference is: $1,548.*

* If you plan on returning the MMe at options end, residual value is irrelevant compared to a Tesla lease, where you must return the car anyway.
Please check my calculations:

Model Y:

Cash Price:

MSRP and selling price of $49,990 plus destination charge of $1,200 total $51,190 less NJ Credit of $5,000

Net cash Price $46,190. You indicated $48,190, a difference of $2,000.


Lease price:


The lease payment with $4,500 down is $499 plus acquisition fee of $695. You have a price of $562 per month a difference of $63 per month.

Total of payments under the lease $22,464 plus acquisition fee of $695, less $500, : NJ credit of $5,000, $4,500 applied to $4,500 down payment, $500 applied to the acquisition fee of $695, balance of $195 due, $6 a month.

So the effective lease payment is in NJ is $505 per month.

As the Model Y has a MSRP below $55,000 there is no NJ sales tax.

MachE:

Cash price:


I believe the waiver on the NJ Sales tax is limited to BEV with a MSRP of $55,000 or less.

see: https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2018/Bills/AL19/362_.PDF

From Ford.com the Premium AWD/LR has a MSRP before destination charges of $58,800 plus destination charge of $1,100 for a total of $59,900.

With a MSRP above $55,000 I believe there would be NJ Sales tax to pay:

see: https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2018/Bills/AL19/362_.PDF

The NJ Sales tax is computed before any incentives:

  • MSRP and Selling price: $59,900
  • Tax @ 6.25% $3.744
  • Federal Tax Credit $7,500
Net cost: $56,144 vs. $46,190 for the Model Y



Lease:

3 years, 10K miles per year

Assuming:

  • MSRP of $59,990
  • Selling price of $59,990
  • MF 1.9% (this is an estimate)
  • Residual 43% (this is the balloon residual on the Ford Option Plan)
  • Deposit $12,000
The monthly payments are $675 before any NJ sales tax vs. $505 for the Model Y. Over the 36 month lease term this is an additional $6,120 vs. the Model Y.

see: Auto Lease Calculator – Best car lease payment calculator

As the MSRP of Premium is over $55,000 I believe the lease would be subject to sales tax.

Sales tax in NJ is on the total of the monthly payments.

see: https://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/News/Consumer Briefs/guide-to-auto-leasing.pdf


The total of the lease payments, $675, 36 months, is $24,300. At a tax rate of 6.25% the tax is $1,519 or an additional $42 a month, for a total effective monthly payment of $717 vs. $505 for the Model Y. This is an additional $7,600 over the term of the lease vs. the Model Y.
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
360 Posts
FYI, there are two different NJ incentives:

1. a point-of-sale rebate of $5,000 on EVs that cost less than $55,000 MSRP. This went into effect this year. (This also gives you $500 towards the purchase and installation of a home charger.) Public Law 2019, c. 362

2. a sales tax exemption on ZEVs, No price cap. N.J.S.A. 54:32B-8.55
Thanks for NJSA 54:32B-8.55 zero emission cars exclusion from sales tax.

Corrected numbers with no NJ Sales Tax:

Cash price:

Model Y: $46,190
Premium: $52,400

Lease price: 36 months, 10,000 miles per year, $4,500 down payment on Model Y, $12,000 on Premium, includes Federal Tax Credit of $7,500.

Lease for Model Y: $506
Lease for MachE: $675
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
716 Posts
Please check my calculations:

Model Y:

Cash Price:

MSRP and selling price of $49,990 plus destination charge of $1,200 total $51,190 less NJ Credit of $5,000

Net cash Price $46,190. You indicated $48,190, a difference of $2,000.


Lease price:


The lease payment with $4,500 down is $499 plus acquisition fee of $695. You have a price of $562 per month a difference of $63 per month.

Total of payments under the lease $22,464 plus acquisition fee of $695, less $500, : NJ credit of $5,000, $4,500 applied to $4,500 down payment, $500 applied to the acquisition fee of $695, balance of $195 due, $6 a month.

So the effective lease payment is in NJ is $505 per month.

As the Model Y has a MSRP below $55,000 there is no NJ sales tax.

MachE:

Cash price:


I believe the waiver on the NJ Sales tax is limited to BEV with a MSRP of $55,000 or less.

see: https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2018/Bills/AL19/362_.PDF

From Ford.com the Premium AWD/LR has a MSRP before destination charges of $58,800 plus destination charge of $1,100 for a total of $59,900.

With a MSRP above $55,000 I believe there would be NJ Sales tax to pay:

see: https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2018/Bills/AL19/362_.PDF

The NJ Sales tax is computed before any incentives:

  • MSRP and Selling price: $59,900
  • Tax @ 6.25% $3.744
  • Federal Tax Credit $7,500
Net cost: $56,144 vs. $46,190 for the Model Y



Lease:

3 years, 10K miles per year

Assuming:

  • MSRP of $59,990
  • Selling price of $59,990
  • MF 1.9% (this is an estimate)
  • Residual 43% (this is the balloon residual on the Ford Option Plan)
  • Deposit $12,000
The monthly payments are $675 before any NJ sales tax vs. $505 for the Model Y. Over the 36 month lease term this is an additional $6,120 vs. the Model Y.

see: Auto Lease Calculator – Best car lease payment calculator

As the MSRP of Premium is over $55,000 I believe the lease would be subject to sales tax.

Sales tax in NJ is on the total of the monthly payments.

see: https://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/News/Consumer Briefs/guide-to-auto-leasing.pdf


The total of the lease payments, $675, 36 months, is $24,300. At a tax rate of 6.25% the tax is $1,519 or an additional $42 a month, for a total effective monthly payment of $717 vs. $505 for the Model Y. This is an additional $7,600 over the term of the lease vs. the Model Y.
Hi JTK,

You missed my quote: “Prices as configured “ as for the differences:
  • Tesla $49,990 +options: +$1,000 blue paint, +$1,000 light interior (to match my MMe order) Total w/ options =$51,990.
  • MMe premium $50,000 +options +7,700 ER/AWD, + 400 infinite blue, +240 rubber mat package. total w/options=$58,340
so, prices in my original post are accurate.

At 3yr/10000 mile lease ( and options equivalent)
Tesla’s lease calculator says payment is $562, not including $695 cost. $4500 down

Ford Options calculator says $605/month. $12,000 down (includes fed credit)

of course, all this changes based on incentives, interest rates, etc, at time of actual purchase.
 

·
Premium Member
2018 Fusion Energi Burgundy Velvet Platinum
Joined
·
450 Posts
Wow this was like a remote learning COVID 19 accounting course. 🧐 Is there any possibility that Ford will offer an incentive for full payment in Crypto Currency 👨‍💻 One final question, so how much will it cost?🥴🤥
PS: Wait until my MD gives me the OK to start drinking again.🤮
/s/ Cheers from a housebound Senior Citizen who is losing all sense of reality.
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
360 Posts
Hi JTK,

You missed my quote: “Prices as configured “ as for the differences:
  • Tesla $49,990 +options: +$1,000 blue paint, +$1,000 light interior (to match my MMe order) Total w/ options =$51,990.
  • MMe premium $50,000 +options +7,700 ER/AWD, + 400 infinite blue, +240 rubber mat package. total w/options=$58,340
so, prices in my original post are accurate.

At 3yr/10000 mile lease ( and options equivalent)
Tesla’s lease calculator says payment is $562, not including $695 cost. $4500 down

Ford Options calculator says $605/month. $12,000 down (includes fed credit)

of course, all this changes based on incentives, interest rates, etc, at time of actual purchase.
Dear MackDrive:

Can you please post the link to:

  • Tesla lease calculator for the Model Y. My link only has a lease calculator for the Model S, X and 3. For the Model Y the only options are cash and loan so your link is an updated version of mine.
  • Ford Option Plan: I went to Ford.com and was unable to find the Ford Option Plan calculator.
Many thanks.

As per your post, and certainly not to nit pick, but only so that your numbers are accurate, you must add:

  • MMe Premium, destination cost $1,100, total $59,450
  • Tesla Mode Y, delivery charge of $1,200, $53,190
Presently X-Plan pricing is available for the MachE. I plan to use it: MSRP less 2% + $275.


J

.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
716 Posts
Dear MackDrive:

Can you please post the link to:

  • Tesla lease calculator for the Model Y. My link only has a lease calculator for the Model S, X and 3. For the Model Y the only options are cash and loan so your link is an updated version of mine.
  • Ford Option Plan: I went to Ford.com and was unable to find the Ford Option Plan calculator.
Many thanks.

As per your post, and certainly not to nit pick, but only so that your numbers are accurate, you must add:

  • MMe Premium, destination cost $1,100, total $59,450
  • Tesla Mode Y, delivery charge of $1,200, $53,190
Presently X-Plan pricing is available for the MachE. I plan to use it: MSRP less 2% + $275.


J

.
Hi JTK,
I did add destination in my original post, maybe its not that clear.

I forgot about the X-plan, thanks. That brings my numbers a bit closer.

as for the calculators, i had to start the order process on each site to get to them. I built the cars as i wanted, and adjusted the finance details as needed.
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
360 Posts
Hi JTK,
I did add destination in my original post, maybe its not that clear.

I forgot about the X-plan, thanks. That brings my numbers a bit closer.

as for the calculators, i had to start the order process on each site to get to them. I built the cars as i wanted, and adjusted the finance details as needed.
MachE

When I went to Ford.com and configured and went to place my order, I did not see the Ford Option Plan.

Can you advise what you did - where did you see the Ford Option Plan so I can bookmark it for future use:

  • MF used
  • Residual used
When I went to my lease calculator, (not Ford Option Plan - I can not find it) using MF of 1.9% and residual of 43% for 3 years, 10K miles per year I came up with different numbers.


Model Y:

Using $499 as the monthly payment, MSRP of $51,190 with $4500 down and a MF of 5.9% (MF for Model X, S and 3) I backed into a residual of 70%.

If you did not use a Tesla calculator, what did you use for:

  • MF
  • Residual
Thanks.


J


.
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
360 Posts
Dear MachDrive:

Did some work and found the financial calculator at the upper right hand corner of the summary page:

For Your configuration here are the numbers:

Ford Options Plan
Monthly Payment
$605.45/mo‡‡‡
APR 2.25%
Edit Monthly PaymentClose Summary​
FORD OPTIONS PLAN PRICING SUMMARY
Estimated Base MSRP
$50,000††
Total Options
$8,340†††
Destination and Delivery Charges
$1,100^^
Total Base MSRP (including optional equipment and D&D)
$59,440^^^
Difference from MSRP
0```
Dealer Selling Price
$59,440~~~
Total Available Incentives
-$2,500ˆ
Ford Options Factors Actual price and payments may be different due to local rebates, specials, fees, and credit qualifications. Consult your dealer for actual price, payments, and complete details.
2.25%
Ford Options Retail Bonus Cash Program #13770: $2,500.00 Ford Credit Bonus cash requires Ford Credit financing. Not all buyers will qualify. Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 08/03/2020. See dealer for complete details.
-$2,500
Down Payment
$12,000****
Deposit to Dealer
$500***
Total Estimated Amount Financed
$44,940†
Estimated Monthly Payment
$605.45/MO˜˜
Term (In Months)
36^^^^
Annual Miles
10500^
Estimated Final Payment to Own (Balloon Payment). See Disclaimer for more information.
$26,153.60


The balloon represents a residual of 44%.

Do not know if $2,500 applies as it is indicated "Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 08/03/2020."

.
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
360 Posts
For anyone interested here are the lease numbers taking into account the Federal Tax credit of $7,500, NY State credit of $2,000, NY State sales tax @8.65%, X-Plan pricing of the MachE vs. Telsa Model Y: I have not included the $2,500 for credit indicated on the "Financial Calculator" as that credit is indicated for "vehicles taken out of stock by 8/30/3020."

I have used my First Edition, Rapid Red vs. Model Y, color white.

First Edition:

  • MSRP $ 60,800
  • Selling Price (X-Plan) $59,859
  • Down Payment: Federal Tax Credit $7,500; NY State tax credit $2,000, total $9,500
  • Term 36 months
  • MF 2.5%
  • Residual $26,752 44% of MSRP
Monthly payment $736, 36 months $26,496. Tax @8.625% on selling price $5,162.

Total out of pocket: $31,568


Model Y


$499 per month for 36 months, $17,964 plus $4,500 down, total $22,464 tax @8.625%, $1938, total $24,402 plus acquisition fee of $695, $25,096 less NY State tax credit of $2,000.

Total out of pocket $23,096

If there is no sales tax on EV then deduct the sales tax from above.

If your state does not give a credit to EV, or gives a different credit adjust as necessary.

Calculation of sales tax:

  • Lease: 41 out of 50 states calculate the sales tax on the sum of the lease payments plus any down payment.
  • Ford Option Plan: as you are buying the car, sales tax will be on negotiated selling price.
.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
I have questions about everyones math with the Down payment portion of the Mach e -

Unless I am wrong, the $7500 won't come until 2021 Taxes (assuming you make enough to get the entire benefit) - and the $5000 NJ rebate won't come until after the order. Will the Ford Option Plan work like Solar where you are required to apply the $12500 after 18 months?
Example: Mach E Monthly cost $550 for first 18 - $850 after unless $12500 is paid.

It's a no brainer to go with the Model Y under all circumstances?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
716 Posts
I have questions about everyones math with the Down payment portion of the Mach e -

Unless I am wrong, the $7500 won't come until 2021 Taxes (assuming you make enough to get the entire benefit) - and the $5000 NJ rebate won't come until after the order. Will the Ford Option Plan work like Solar where you are required to apply the $12500 after 18 months?
Example: Mach E Monthly cost $550 for first 18 - $850 after unless $12500 is paid.

It's a no brainer to go with the Model Y under all circumstances?
I have no idea if it will work like the solar loans.
I assumed i would up-front the Fed credit, and recoup later at tax-time.

The NJ rebate is supposed to allow you to say ‘pay dealer’ when you apply and use it towards down payment.

As for the rest, these are theoretical discussions based on assumptions of what is available today. Interest rates, incentives, residual value estimates all change fairly quickly.

Our brain-storming seems to be cluttering this thread, so we have taken it off-line. JTK and I will probably post one final musing with our consensus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
I have no idea if it will work like the solar loans.
I assumed i would up-front the Fed credit, and recoup later at tax-time.

The NJ rebate is supposed to allow you to say ‘pay dealer’ when you apply and use it towards down payment.

As for the rest, these are theoretical discussions based on assumptions of what is available today. Interest rates, incentives, residual value estimates all change fairly quickly.

Our brain-storming seems to be cluttering this thread, so we have taken it off-line. JTK and I will probably post one final musing with our consensus.
If they wanted the $7500 up front they should lease it normally - the only viable option is to make it similar to Solar loans where the $7500 is expected as a down payment but not due until a set amount of time after the fact. For those that do not have solar - prior to 2021 in NJ it was 30% of the cost (20k loan, 6k tax credit over any amount of years to receive entirety of credit.) The 30% is not due until 18 months after loan (roughly 125 a month for 18 months, 175 or so after the 18 month window).

Unlike solar, the EV credit must be obtained all at once at Tax time and you must be able to claim the entirety of that credit. For Ford to require that knowing that depending on the users tax liability they may not even receive the $7500 is bad business.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
716 Posts
If they wanted the $7500 up front they should lease it normally - the only viable option is to make it similar to Solar loans where the $7500 is expected as a down payment but not due until a set amount of time after the fact. For those that do not have solar - prior to 2021 in NJ it was 30% of the cost (20k loan, 6k tax credit over any amount of years to receive entirety of credit.) The 30% is not due until 18 months after loan (roughly 125 a month for 18 months, 175 or so after the 18 month window).

Unlike solar, the EV credit must be obtained all at once at Tax time and you must be able to claim the entirety of that credit. For Ford to require that knowing that depending on the users tax liability they may not even receive the $7500 is bad business.
Ford doesn’t require it, it would be my choice to pay it up front.
However, i like your idea better. As a ‘deferred’ down payment. From the sounds if it, you would have to make up the difference if you don’t get the full return when due.
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
360 Posts
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Over the past couple of days I started thinking about this video.

  • I went to KBB.com and found that the trade in value, which is very close to the residual value, is $37,000. This represents 67% of the original MSRP not 77% as per the video.
See: https://www.kbb.com/tesla/model-3/2017/long-range-sedan-4d/?vehicleid=446070&mileage=30000&modalview=false&intent=trade-in-sell&pricetype=trade-in&condition=verygood&options=9243646|true
  • I went to Cars.com to see what dealers are offering for sale: This is far more accurate than KBB.com estimation: Here is what I found: All you want of long range, both RWD and AWD 2018 not 2017, a one year newer Model 3 for under $37,000. That is depreciation of 65% after two years, which will probably equate to 55%/58% after three years.
  • It is interesting to note that the residual for the Model S, 3 years, 10,000 miles per year, is 58%.
see: https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?mdId=36328799&mkId=28263&page=1&perPage=20&rd=99999&searchSource=SORT&sort=price-lowest&stkTypId=28881&zc=11050

So the problem with the video is that the assumption of 77% residual after three years is not correct. When actual numbers are used, after three years leasing is much cheaper than financing even with an interest rate of only 2.49%

.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
30 Posts
Great discussion.

I find it interesting that no one even mentioned the Ford dealer network or the Tesla Superchargers.
 

·
Read Only
2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E Premium Carbonized Gray
Joined
·
7 Posts
It's a no brainer to go with the Model Y under all circumstances?
I am kinda starting to wonder this also. I could get my $500 back and walk across the street to Tesla and place my order. Why pay $750/mo. when I can pay $500/mo??? Price is the most important factor. The MME looks way better, but the Y is cheaper.
I prefer cheaper.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
I am kinda starting to wonder this also. I could get my $500 back and walk across the street to Tesla and place my order. Why pay $750/mo. when I can pay $500/mo??? Price is the most important factor. The MME looks way better, but the Y is cheaper.
I prefer cheaper.
With the recent model Y price reductions, even with the tax rebates, our MME Premium looks to be the more expensive option (lease or purchase) over the long run.

That said, pricing is a big factor in the decision making but there are other considerations. For us, styling, build quality ( (Personally, I think that even a first generation Ford product is going to be better than Tesla) weigh in favor of the Ford but ultimately it's the lack of physical switch gear on the model Y that has us going with the Ford.


Also for us... the nearest Tesla showroom is over an hour drive away. Build quality wouldn't be such a big factor if I could just drop it off around the corner for minor items.
 
21 - 40 of 62 Posts
Top