Mach-E Forum | Ford Mustang Mach-E Forum and News banner

41 - 60 of 97 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,004 Posts
...Thoughts?
I have a few.

The estimate of 3000 FE is too high. The Bronco was only 2500 to start (Doubled to 5000 because of demand). They extended the MMe FE conversion window because they are trying to get enough FE orders in place to make the minimum amount, they failed to get the minimum target by July 30. I believe the final number will be no more than 1500 at best, including the company purchases.

Your estimates for order conversion also seem high, especially in the current economy. If 20% converted to date (they have until the end of the year, after all) that is a high number.

Additional thoughts:

There shouldn’t be a single Mustang Mach-E sitting on a lot (i mean dealer stock, not counting FCTP) until ALL customer orders are fulfilled.

No one who ordered the MMe after the reservations closed should get their vehicle before converted reservations.

How unfair would it be if we were left waiting for a vehicle, just to see one left unclaimed on the dealer lot. Or worse, someone who just ordered a month ago driving around in one, while you have been waiting a year? Bad customer relations, if you ask me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
I have a few.

The estimate of 3000 FE is too high. The Bronco was only 2500 to start (Doubled to 5000 because of demand). They extended the MMe FE conversion window because they are trying to get enough FE orders in place to make the minimum amount, they failed to get the minimum target by July 30. I believe the final number will be no more than 1500 at best, including the company purchases.

Your estimates for order conversion also seem high, especially in the current economy. If 20% converted to date (they have until the end of the year, after all) that is a high number.

Additional thoughts:

There shouldn’t be a single Mustang Mach-E sitting on a lot (i mean dealer stock, not counting FCTP) until ALL customer orders are fulfilled.

No one who ordered the MMe after the reservations closed should get their vehicle before converted reservations.

How unfair would it be if we were left waiting for a vehicle, just to see one left unclaimed on the dealer lot. Or worse, someone who just ordered a month ago driving around in one, while you have been waiting a year? Bad customer relations, if you ask me.
But there is talk that some reservation holders had their reservations converted to orders by dealers without their consent - either innocently or not. If they were early reservations, and they are not ultimately purchased by the reservation holder, the dealer is free to sell to anyone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Thoughts?
The Table shows 250 FCTP First Editions --- that was not a choice for dealers to order.

I have no info on the wholesale price break the dealers are given on these demo cars,
but 2,500 units seems high for the US market.

The Table also shows only 1,000 FE for the US market --- I would guess closer to 1,500.
 

·
Registered
2016 Nissan Leaf, 2021 Mustang Mach-E First Edition reserved
Joined
·
893 Posts
Discussion Starter #44
The Table shows 250 FCTP First Editions --- that was not a choice for dealers to order.

I have no info on the wholesale price break the dealers are given on these demo cars,
but 2,500 units seems high for the US market.

The Table also shows only 1,000 FE for the US market --- I would guess closer to 1,500.
Agreed. I'm guessing there will be a number of "special" executive orders of First Editions. 250 is probably too high, though.
 

·
Registered
2016 Nissan Leaf, 2021 Mustang Mach-E First Edition reserved
Joined
·
893 Posts
Discussion Starter #45
I have a few.

The estimate of 3000 FE is too high. The Bronco was only 2500 to start (Doubled to 5000 because of demand). They extended the MMe FE conversion window because they are trying to get enough FE orders in place to make the minimum amount, they failed to get the minimum target by July 30. I believe the final number will be no more than 1500 at best, including the company purchases.
I hope you're right. I'd like my FE to be even more "special". I've seen the number 3,000 used by multiple inside sources as the maximum. However, Ford has never released this number. It's still an educated guess but probably a maximum rather than an actual number.

Do you know they failed to reach minimum by 31 July? I haven't seen that anywhere. I do know they have extended the window twice it and it now closes on 14 August.

Your estimates for order conversion also seem high, especially in the current economy. If 20% converted to date (they have until the end of the year, after all) that is a high number.
Maybe. There are also lots of market analysts showing that consumers whose jobs are not threatened are planning new car purchase/lease for renewed commuting -- especially in markets formerly served by high mass transit use. Folks don't want to get on crowded buses and trains.

Additional thoughts:

There shouldn’t be a single Mustang Mach-E sitting on a lot (i mean dealer stock, not counting FCTP) until ALL customer orders are fulfilled.
As @abr said, there are lots of "surprise" conversions going on. Other folks have converted but won't be sure if they are buying until the test drive and FCTP delivery may be very close to customer unit delivery. I agree there shouldn't be any "dealer stock" on lots until after conversions are fulfilled, unless
  • Someone backs out of a sale -- that car remains dealer stock
  • The dealer reserved and ordered the unit through the same process we did
No one who ordered the MMe after the reservations closed should get their vehicle before converted reservations.

How unfair would it be if we were left waiting for a vehicle, just to see one left unclaimed on the dealer lot. Or worse, someone who just ordered a month ago driving around in one, while you have been waiting a year? Bad customer relations, if you ask me.
If you note, direct orders are coming in with numbers over 100,000 whereas reservations topped in the 80,000s just before the order system opened. Ford has repeatedly said orders will be filled in reservation timestamp order. Presumably that is now reservation/direct order timestamp order.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
It will be interesting to see how many of the US EV Certified dealers placed an order for the FCTP / demo car last month.

Does the dealer qualify for and able to collect the $7,500 Fed Tax Credit on these demo vehicles?
I don’t think they can sell them after the minimum 4 months in service and have the buyer now qualify for the credit.

Another problem for the dealer is that by the time they get the demo, almost all of the initial year production for the US will already be ordered.
And even if there are a few thousand still available to order, delivery on these new orders, will not be until after the GT and Europe production making delivery late 2021 --- a long wait.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kamuelaflyer

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
hey are trying to get enough FE orders in place to make the minimum amount, they failed to get the minimum target by July 30.
There's a very simple solution for that. Allow people to convert to FE's. I'd suggest we limit the late conversion to FE orders to those in the 35994 res number through the 35,999 rez numbers. :p And yes, I'm kidding. @Chasing Coral is correct, the FE's should be a more limited edition car.

There are also lots of market analysts showing that consumers whose jobs are not threatened are planning new car purchase/lease for renewed commuting -- especially in markets formerly served by high mass transit use. Folks don't want to get on crowded buses and trains.
So let them wait in Interstate 880 or Bayshore traffic in the SFO Bay Area instead! But it'll be in an MME. Seriously the point is well taken. A pandemic wasn't on the radar of any of us outside the CDC and the like.

Honestly none of us know what the conversion to order rate is or how many people will drop out of the orders after a test drive. Ford knows the current percentage on reservations to orders and has historical data for the latter. If we use Tesla as a baseline (please no!), the conversion rate could be anywhere from 10% to 70%. My guess would be closer to that latter than the former, but that's just my guess. Both of these forums are filled with the most interested buyers and potential buyers, our sample group is probably not representative of the entire rez/order population.
 

·
Registered
2016 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid
Joined
·
92 Posts
Not sure I can understand all the excitement for FEs. Red brake callipers and a Mach E sill plate are not enough of a feature to pique my interest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts

·
Registered
2016 Nissan Leaf, 2021 Mustang Mach-E First Edition reserved
Joined
·
893 Posts
Discussion Starter #50
It will be interesting to see how many of the US EV Certified dealers placed an order for the FCTP / demo car last month.

Does the dealer qualify for and able to collect the $7,500 Fed Tax Credit on these demo vehicles?
I don’t think they can sell them after the minimum 4 months in service and have the buyer now qualify for the credit.

Another problem for the dealer is that by the time they get the demo, almost all of the initial year production for the US will already be ordered.
And even if there are a few thousand still available to order, delivery on these new orders, will not be until after the GT and Europe production making delivery late 2021 --- a long wait.
Dealer demo cars are considered new when they are sold to the customer, so they would be eligible for the tax credit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Dealer demo cars are considered new when they are sold to the customer, so they would be eligible for the tax credit.
I was not aware that the Tax Credit is still available to the buyer even after being in service for months with the dealer.

If buying one, I definitely would want to see the MSO --- Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin to make sure it has never been Titled as that would kill the Credit.
 

·
Registered
2016 Nissan Leaf, 2021 Mustang Mach-E First Edition reserved
Joined
·
893 Posts
Discussion Starter #52
I was not aware that the Tax Credit is still available to the buyer even after being in service for months with the dealer.

If buying one, I definitely would want to see the MSO --- Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin to make sure it has never been Titled as that would kill the Credit.
Yes, you definitely want to see the MSO to confirm it has not been titled. Here's a bit on the differences from Edmunds: Can Buying a Demo Car Save You Money? on Edmunds.com
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,004 Posts
Not sure I can understand all the excitement for FEs. Red brake callipers and a Mach E sill plate are not enough of a feature to pique my interest.
Wow, this thread is hoppin’

The whole excitement is to have one of the first vehicles built. To keep it as a long term collector’s item.

they will get even rarer over time as some get taken out of service because of overuse or accidents.
If the MMe truly turns out to be a game changer for Ford, and if any of us are around in 30 years, you may see yours on display somewhere. 😄
 

·
Premium Member
2018 Fusion Energi Burgundy Velvet Platinum
Joined
·
693 Posts
Wow, this thread is hoppin’

The whole excitement is to have one of the first vehicles built. To keep it as a long term collector’s item.

they will get even rarer over time as some get taken out of service because of overuse or accidents.
If the MMe truly turns out to be a game changer for Ford, and if any of us are around in 30 years, you may see yours on display somewhere. 😄
If I'm still around in 30 years, I'll be 103 YOA and other than not remembering my name, I won't remember what FE stood for.o_O
 

·
Registered
2016 Nissan Leaf, 2021 Mustang Mach-E First Edition reserved
Joined
·
893 Posts
Discussion Starter #55
They extended the MMe FE conversion window because they are trying to get enough FE orders in place to make the minimum amount, they failed to get the minimum target by July 30. I believe the final number will be no more than 1500 at best, including the company purchases.
I'm seeing some evidence you are right on Ford working up to a mimimum.
When you say 1500 at best, I guess you mean ~ 1000 EU/UK and 500 North American??

There's a very simple solution for that. Allow people to convert to FE's. I'd suggest we limit the late conversion to FE orders to those in the 35994 res number through the 35,999 rez numbers. :p And yes, I'm kidding. @Chasing Coral is correct, the FE's should be a more limited edition car.
So, I don't know how they managed it but I'be now heard from two folks who have managed to convert their Premium reservations into First Edition orders. One had a first night reservation but the other had a reservation from much later.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,004 Posts
I'm seeing some evidence you are right on Ford working up to a minimum.
When you say 1500 at best, I guess you mean ~ 1000 EU/UK and 500 North American??
I don’t think the numbers are so clear-cut. The actual breakdown will be however the FEs sold.
the same goes for the other models, not quotas by type. Ford has stated they want cars in all 50 states, not just allocated to California. So that may change the build schedule To accommodate.
If COVID wasn’t here, the reservation conversion would be higher, but it is a $50k-$60k want, not a need. Some may be playing safe through this crisis.

i think we will be able to glean more after we get some scheduling feedback after 8/20.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
They extended the MMe FE conversion window because they are trying to get enough FE orders in place to make the minimum amount, they failed to get the minimum target by July 30. I believe the final number will be no more than 1500 at best, including the company purchases.
It is also possible some FE reservation holders complained they did not get a heads up the reservation would be cancelled if they didn’t convert by July 31.
Some have to be hit over the head 3 times before they get the message.

It would be a no cost item to Ford to extend the window as FE production is still almost 2 months away.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,004 Posts
It is also possible some FE reservation holders complained they did not get a heads up the reservation would be cancelled if they didn’t convert by July 31.
Some have to be hit over the head 3 times before they get the message.

It would be a no cost item to Ford to extend the window as FE production is still almost 2 months away.
The problem is, they have to have everything in place before the line starts moving.

I see the biggest lead-time probably related to the interior seat trim with color-keyed stitching.
Ford can produce enough Red brake caps, and FE sill plates For 1500 vehicles ahead of time, but with an unknown variable like a customer’s paint choice? They have no clue the qty of blue or red stitching needed.
They have to allow adequate time to manufacture the seat-covers, and then ship time to the factory. These parts have to be ready before the September run, with the assumption some the Job1 cars will be FE’s as well. So lead-time is less than a month.

FE reservations were made six months before the ‘time to order’ email was sent out. 45 days is enough time to make up your mind to order. There are 10’s of thousands of others waiting. Lets start building already.
 

·
Registered
MME First Edition Rapid Red
Joined
·
205 Posts
Just an FYI I got a call from my dealer yesterday (who knew I was interested in switching to a FE) telling me he could secure one for me. I took it. I have a very early Premium reservation and was mad at myself that I was being frugal that night and did not reserve a FE. I know of at least one other person who also got that call (on another forum). So apparently Ford is allowing some to change by request through dealers to probably fill the slots of those who cancelled.
A little nervous though as I got the email of the cancellation of my Premium but my FE is not showing up yet in my reservations. He did share the order sheet with me though.
 

·
Registered
Reserved First Edition Rapid Red Metallic
Joined
·
575 Posts
Just an FYI I got a call from my dealer yesterday (who knew I was interested in switching to a FE) telling me he could secure one for me. I took it. I have a very early Premium reservation and was mad at myself that I was being frugal that night and did not reserve a FE. I know of at least one other person who also got that call (on another forum). So apparently Ford is allowing some to change by request through dealers to probably fill the slots of those who cancelled.
A little nervous though as I got the email of the cancellation of my Premium but my FE is not showing up yet in my reservations. He did share the order sheet with me though.
Excellent news for you, not so good for Ford.

This would indicate to me at least that there may be a real problem with the pricing of the MachE. People are not converting from reservations to orders and unless there is a real lease option, not the Ford Option Plan, those orders may not be converted to actual sales.

I remember several months ago we were concerned with ADM. Now the dealers are happy to assign canceled FE orders to others rather than take the cars into their inventory.

During this same time the price of the Model Y has been reduced and their is still a delivery wait of 4 to 6 weeks.

The market place is speaking. Is Ford listening?

Just my $.02.

.
 
41 - 60 of 97 Posts
Top