[JTK44]

My longest road trip is 720km which requires 2 x 40 min DC fast charging stops with Chevy Bolt in summer. The MME FE will need 1 DC fast charge for 30 min for this trip. Not a big deal. I need the break to have something to eat and use washroom.

Ontario and Quebec have a good network of DC fast charging stations on the major roads I travel.

Rough calculations: 720 KM is 450 miles.

As per my post #30, you have in the winter about 140 miles of range on a LR AWD then a 40 minute stop to get to 80% capacity. That will give you another 120 miles, then another 40 minute stop. You have now driven 260 miles with 190 miles to go. Another 40 minute stop to get another 120 miles.

I calculate three stops not one. This is an additional 2 hours of stopping time. Granted in an ICE, on a 450 mile trip I would stop once for gas, 10 minutes and two to minute "pit stops" total of 30 minutes.

In the summer two stops not one.

 

[Adam Hofmann]

Rough calculations: 720 KM is 450 miles.

As per my post #30, you have in the winter about 140 miles of range on a LR AWD then a 40 minute stop to get to 80% capacity. That will give you another 120 miles, then another 40 minute stop. You have now driven 260 miles with 190 miles to go. Another 40 minute stop to get another 120 miles.

I calculate three stops not one. This is an additional 2 hours of stopping time. Granted in an ICE, on a 450 mile trip I would stop once for gas, 10 minutes and two to minute "pit stops" total of 30 minutes.

In the summer two stops not one.

I make the 450 mile trip only in summer. I have made it many times and need two 40 min stops with Chevy Bolt that has 240 mile range. This is not theoretical calculation. It is actual. In our Bolt if we don't use AC our range increases by another 10% above the EPA rating. My guess is the MME LR AWD will also have a range over 300 miles in summer if no AC is used and speed at 65 miles per hour which is what most of our Ontario undivided roads can handle.

The MME has 270 mile range in summer but will likely be higher. It will require 1 stop with 40 min charge time. Based on a DC fast charge rate averaging 100 kw/hr. I am done thorough research and can back up these numbers.

Unfortunately your math scares people that don't understand and lack personal EV. experience. It is best to review real data and real world examples. I have never met an EV owner that was not convinced about EV's.

We live in rural Ontario, two hours from a major city centre. In three years we have only had one time that we got nervous about getting home due to bad weather and very heavy winds. It resulted in us turning off the heat for the last 45 minutes of a drive and reduce speed to the speed limit. We ended up with 6 KWh battery charge.

 

[JTK44]

I make the 450 mile trip only in summer. I have made it many times and need two 40 min stops with Chevy Bolt that has 240 mile range. This is not theoretical calculation. It is actual. In our Bolt if we don't use AC our range increases by another 10% above the EPA rating. My guess is the MME LR AWD will also have a range over 300 miles in summer if no AC is used and speed at 65 miles per hour which is what most of our Ontario undivided roads can handle.

The MME has 270 mile range in summer but will likely be higher. It will require 1 stop with 40 min charge time. Based on a DC fast charge rate averaging 100 kw/hr. I am done thorough research and can back up these numbers.

Unfortunately your math scares people that don't understand and lack personal EV. experience. It is best to review real data and real world examples. I have never met an EV owner that was not convinced about EV's.

We live in rural Ontario, two hours from a major city centre. In three years we have only had one time that we got nervous about getting home due to bad weather and very heavy winds. It resulted in us turning off the heat for the last 45 minutes of a drive and reduce speed to the speed limit. We ended up with 6 KWh battery charge.

I really do not know to respond:

If I drive my ICE at 53 mph, it is 75 degrees outside, the road is completely flat as a pancake and I turn off the A/C maybe I get 36 mpg!

in the East our Interstates have a posted speed limit of 65 and I set my cruise control at 73 mph. Cars going to Quebec pass me at 80 mph!

in the winter I turn on the heated seats and steering wheel and set temperature at 68. Once the car is warmed up I turn off both the steering wheel and heated seats.

in the summerI set the A/C at 72.

I do not think turning the heat on in the winter or the A/C on in the summer is “extreme” and I would certainly expect to do the same in any car I drive whether it is a Toyota a Mercedes or an EV. it is 2021 and I can’t see anyone else doing differently.

IMO, and until we have real world range that is different we must accept what Ford has published: for the AWD LR that is 270. That range is calculated combining highway and local driving with regenerative braking adding mileage back and at 55 degrees - no A/C.

This is the present Maximum. With OTA updates it might increase, but until that happens this the number we have.

From this maximum we must deduct:

• Speed above 55 mph
• Highway driving - no local driving
• Mountains and hills
• accessories: windshield wipers, heated seats, heated steering wheel
• Weather: rain decreases range
• A/C
• Cold weather

IMO, anyone who thinks that the 270 combined range will somehow increase to 300 miles simply by going a steady 65 mph and not using the A/C will be greatly disappointed.

in real world driving, using A/C, heat, windshield wipers I expect the range to be less than 270 miles not more.

.

 

[Adam Hofmann]

I really do not know to respond:

If I drive my ICE at 53 mph, it is 75 degrees outside, the road is completely flat as a pancake and I turn off the A/C maybe I get 36 mpg!

in the East our Interstates have a posted speed limit of 65 and I set my cruise control at 73 mph. Cars going to Quebec pass me at 80 mph!

in the winter I turn on the heated seats and steering wheel and set temperature at 68. Once the car is warmed up I turn off both the steering wheel and heated seats.

in the summerI set the A/C at 72.

I do not think turning the heat on in the winter or the A/C on in the summer is “extreme” and I would certainly expect to do the same in any car I drive whether it is a Toyota a Mercedes or an EV. it is 2021 and I can’t see anyone else doing differently.

IMO, and until we have real world range that is different we must accept what Ford has published: for the AWD LR that is 270. That range is calculated combining highway and local driving with regenerative braking adding mileage back and at 55 degrees - no A/C.

This is the present Maximum. With OTA updates it might increase, but until that happens this the number we have.

From this maximum we must deduct:

• Speed above 55 mph
• Highway driving - no local driving
• Mountains and hills
• accessories: windshield wipers, heated seats, heated steering wheel
• Weather: rain decreases range
• A/C
• Cold weather

IMO, anyone who thinks that the 270 combined range will somehow increase to 300 miles simply by going a steady 65 mph and not using the A/C will be greatly disappointed.

in real world driving, using A/C, heat, windshield wipers I expect the range to be less than 270 miles not more.

.

My Chevy Bolt has an EPA range of 388km. I get 400 km range with AC and 440km range without AC when temperature does not require it in summer. Speed limits are lower in Ontario then US. We can only drive between 55 and 65 miles per hour on rural and main highways. The upgrade from Bolt to MME will mean charging times 2 to 3 times faster then Bolt.

All the test reviews I have seen so far, along with statements by Ford on their approach in displaying real world range gives me much greater respect vs Tesla approach that inflates range and does not properly take into account driving style, driving conditions and trip plan. Having accurate information while driving means you can stay relaxed and make appropriate decisions. Chevy Bolt uses similar range adjustment and displays more realistic information. It can actually be a little fun to beat the range estimate. I don't ever turn off the heat or AC as my wife would not appreciate that Lol.

 

[Diogenes]

Ludlow to ski Okemo.

Tesla has a supercharger in Brattleboro, 55 miles away. There are L2 charges at the mountain. The next closest Tesla supercharger station is Rutland, 40 miles then White River Junction, 55 miles.

When I went to EA map, the closet supercharging station is at Springfield, MA - 115 miles away. There is a L2 in Brattleboro and White River Junction. Nothing else.

So realistically, assume I somehow make it to Ludlow, I have to spend hours at the Tesla L2 charger in order to get back to Springfield, Mass EA supercharger.

Then what happens if the supercharger at Springfield is not operating or only at L2 output?

Again great for local, commuting, short trips but not long trips.

My wife says it sounds like the Mustang is a perfect third car!

So for a VT roadtrip, Tesla's are maybe bit better if you happen to be driving through Springfield, or Rutland.
For my trip to central VT going up the Northway, very little difference between a Tesla and a MME. Northern VT? Jay Peak's going to be hard to do in a BEV. Net... EVs, including Tesla's aren't quite there for weekend ski trips to VT without a careful planning.

Doubt VT is any sort of priority for Superchargers. The nearest US showroom is in Boston. (not sure if Montreal counts). Once I get North of Rutland or Middlebury, don't see too many Teslas. Rare sight in Burlington as well. Do see a few Bolts though.

All that said... Given the condition of the roads in parts of VT I travel to (some of them unpaved), I would probably leave the MME home even if it had a 600 mile range.

 

[FISHEV]

Should add I used Michelin Xices for winter tires. Have not noticed any range effect but it is winter and wet so hard to separate the tires from the environment.

Might go with the Michelin Cross Climates on the MachE as they do have the Winter tire rating which is necessary in OR and a 60,000 tread warranty. Might not be as good as the Xices in snow and ice but could have a single tire set instead of two.

 

[MachDrive]

Trip to Vermont: I do this 10 times during the ski season.

ICE:

254 miles: driving time 4 hours 5 minutes: Two quick bathroom breaks at rest stops: 10 minutes; total elapsed time 4: hours 15 minutes. Arrive with more than 1/2 a tank of gas.

MME LR AWD

Drive 140 miles: stop to recharge 80%: 40 minutes. This gives 216 miles: less 10%, 190 miles, less 30% 133 miles. Stop again to get 80% charge, 40 minutes. Total elapsed time, 5 hours and 25 minutes.

The elapsed time in the MME is like driving the ICE at 50 mph!

Yes you can do it, but who wants to turn a 4 hour trip into a 5 hour trip!

PS: Just checked for EA charging stations along the I-95/I-91 corridor between New Haven CT and Vermont: There are none!

So I could not even use the MME unless I wanted to "piggy back" onto the Tesla L2 charging stations.

The charging is part of the EV lifestyle. It is what it is for at least the next two years. Everyone investigating purchasing a BEV is aware, or soon learns.

My co-worker on his MYP says he is lucky to see 180 miles range right now, and its only been around freezing in NYC these past two months.

 

[Diogenes]

The charging is part of the EV lifestyle. It is what it is for at least the next two years. Everyone investigating purchasing a BEV is aware, or soon learns.

My co-worker on his MYP says he is lucky to see 180 miles range right now, and its only been around freezing in NYC these past two months.

Like any car we'll need to learn how to drive it and use the features, particularly the one pedal driving.
However, about the only lifestyle change we'll be making is to plug in each night just like our phones.
We would not have purchased a BEV otherwise.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[FISHEV]

However, about the only lifestyle change we'll be making is to plug in each night just like our phones.
We would not have purchased a BEV otherwise.

Not sure about the "we" Tonto.

I think a lot of people without home charging purchased Model 3's as the long range and charging network make it possible to own EV without home charging.

At the crowded metro charging stations, it is mostly Model 3's with a few disgruntled S/X owners who purchased free charging and use the Tesla chargers even though they have home charging. I once had an S owner argue he should get to jump the line as he paid for "Unlimited Charging".

To make an EV work without home charging takes planning. Location, location, location. And it takes a bit more committment as you may have to charge every day for 30-40 minutes.

 

[Diogenes]

Not sure about the "we" Tonto.

I think a lot of people without home charging purchased Model 3's as the long range and charging network make it possible to own EV without home charging.

At the crowded metro charging stations, it is mostly Model 3's with a few disgruntled S/X owners who purchased free charging and use the Tesla chargers even though they have home charging. I once had an S owner argue he should get to jump the line as he paid for "Unlimited Charging".

To make an EV work without home charging takes planning. Location, location, location. And it takes a bit more committment as you may have to charge every day for 30-40 minutes.

Nice racial slur there.... You do realize I have a family that I often refer to as "we".

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[FISHEV]

Nice racial slur there.

It's a name of a person. Origional joke was "Kimosabe" which was a fictional Native American term which could be construed as "racial" but both miss the joke itself which is not racial. Best stick to EV/MachE topics vs. deflecting to contrived poutrage.

Point was and is many are now buying EV's without having home charging. We are not lone rangers anymore.

 

[Diogenes]

It's a name of a person. Origional joke was "Kimosabe" which was a fictional Native American term which could be construed as "racial" but both miss the joke itself which is not racial. Best stick to EV/MachE topics vs. deflecting to contrived poutrage.

Point was and is many are now buying EV's without having home charging. We are not lone rangers anymore.

Keep digging. Whelcome to the Ignore bin.

 

[JTK44]

Just my $.02:

Both Diogenes and Fishev have contributed a great deal of information on this forum.

Let's just agree that the use of the name "Tonto" is offensive to some, but it use was not done with malice.

To the subject at had: I have posted that without a robust charging infrastructure the MME is not suitable for long trips.

As to the millions of people who live in Metropolitan areas or suburban areas that do not have access to a home charging - think of the millions of suburban town houses without garages, apartments without garages, without a robust charging system they are "sh** out of luck" or they are up "the preverable creek without a paddle".

One thing to remember: The Tesla was originally an upscale car price wise. People with money can find ways to charge their car without rely on public charging - except for trips. They either own homes where they install a home charging station or if they live in metropolitan areas, those apartments have garages with charging station. The original Model 3 and Model Y were also priced for the wealthy.

As prices come down on EV's so that more of the public can afford them, in order that sales continue upward, charging stations must become as ubiquitous as gas stations are.

 

[FISHEV]

Keep digging. Whelcome to the Ignore bin.

For people familiar with the term and issue, it doesn't take much digging.

"Johnny Depp’s Tonto Isn’t Offensive, Just Weird, Says the Director of the American Indian Museum"

Johnny Depp’s Tonto Isn’t Offensive, Just Weird, Says the Director of the American Indian Museum

We sent the Director of the American Indian Museum to the Lone Ranger; here's what he thought

www.smithsonianmag.com

Now back to snow tires and wheels...sheesh.

Depends on type of winter driving as some of the new All Seasons include the winter tire symbol which is required for a lot of West coast winter driving regs.

CrossClimate+ mentioned above has it plus a 60,000 mile wear rating and good wet and dry performance in summer driving.

And key is the range loss, if any vs. an eco-choice tire.

 

[MachDrive]

Well said @JTK44. Conversation and cooler heads prevail.

On the car stuff: I will respectfully disagree with the phrase ‘not suitable for long trips’, and rephrase it to ‘not as convenient as others on long trips’.

For home charging: US urbanites without driveway/garage charging, and who do not live in California or in the soon-to-be EV utopia of Austin, Texas, find they have to get creative when owning an EV because of the immature charging infrastructure. A friend of mine in Queens, NY made arrangements to have a lockable outdoor 14-50 plug put on the front of the apartment building where he lives. and when charging curbside, he uses the tracks in the picture below. Not convenient, but it works.

 

[FISHEV]

For home charging: US urbanites without driveway/garage charging, and who do not live in California or in the soon-to-be EV utopia of Austin, Texas, find they have to get creative when owning an EV because of the immature charging infrastructure.

Would add EVtopia of PDX, EA built chargers less than a mile from all the Tesla chargers.

EA has an interesting paper on how it decides where to put chargers based on travel patterns.

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/assets/pdf/National%20ZEV%20Investment%20Plan.3100e374.pdf

 

[MachDrive]

Oops, i just looked at this thread title, topic drift. Sorry.

Any winter tires with max load ratings recommended?

 

[FISHEV]

Any winter tires with max load ratings recommended?

Michelin Xice if max snow performance.
Michelin CrossClimate+ for winter rated but good all around tire.
Yokohama Avid Ascent GT for best dry/wet and decent snow with snow tire symbol to be legal in West.

 

[RetiredDP]

For me, I will go with 18" michelin x-ice. That's what I have on my current car and it's doing great even in rural environment. But with wind on the road I have more ice than snow in my area. I also plan on getting better summer/all season tires for better grip depending on the performance of the one they will put from the factory.

I'm currently using X-Ice's on my Focus RS...not as much traction as my former Blizzaks.

 

[Adam Hofmann]

After further investigation. It appears the ultimate snow tire for my Canadian winter climate is the NOKIAN HAKKAPELIITTA R3 SUV. It is the top rated non studded tire. It also has the weight rating for the MME.