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Discussion Starter #1
With all the reading I've done on this sight & any where else I can find information on the MME I need educating on an issue.

Am I to understand that all the hardware, radars, camera's, etc WILL be installed for complete self driving mode with limited capability initially. Then full self driving software over the air upgrade released ETA sometime 3rd qtr 2021 & cost to yet to be determined for the software upgrade.

Do I have that about right??
 

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Not exactly, but close:
  1. The select edition requires the tech package add-on to get the hardware
  2. The premium, route 1, and first editions will all have the hardware
  3. Unclear on the GT
  4. It is not "Full self driving" as tesla frames it; it is for highway only as so far communicated
 

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No, this isn't quite right. The 2021 Mustang Mach-E doesn't support "complete self driving" and will not ever receive an update for that.

So what WILL it have?

All models get Ford Co-Pilot360 2.0 and Ford Co-Pilot360 Assist 2.0. These are capabilities referred to as advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS). On Mustang Mach-E, this includes:
  • Auto high beams
  • BLIS (blind spot information system) with cross-traffic alert
  • Lane-keeping system with lane-keeping aid, lane-keeping alert, road edge detection, blind spot assist, and driver alert
  • Post-collision braking
  • Pre-collision assist with automatic emergency braking (AEB), pedestrian detection, and forward collision warning with dynamic brake support
  • Rear view camera
  • Reverse brake assist
  • Reverse sensing system
  • Forward sensing system
  • Intelligent adaptive cruise control with stop-and-go, lane centering, and speed sign recognition
  • Evasive steering assist
  • Intersection assist
  • Voice-activated touchscreen navigation system w/ three years of service, EV trip planner, live traffic, and predictive destinations and route guidance
The extra hardware you may be thinking of is the Ford Co-Pilot360 Active 2.0 Prep Package. This is included as standard on Premium, California Route 1, and First Edition. For the Select, you need to order the car with the Comfort/Technology Package to get this hardware. Cars equipped with the prep package get these additional ADAS functions:
  • Active Drive Assist Prep Kit
  • Active Park Assist 2.0
  • 360-degree camera with split-view display and front washer
The Active Drive Assist (ADA) prep kit adds additional radars and a camera based driver monitoring system (DMS). So then if you have ADA kit, then Ford is estimating that an optional for-fee update will be available late next year which enhances the Intelligent Adaptive Cruise Control by adding support for hands-free driving in so called "Hands-Free Zones" (over 100,000 miles of North American divided highways).

Ford is saying that they've got a lot of other update plans in the works, but they haven't shared any specifics on what those might be. However, we can safely bet that autonomous driving will not be one of those updates.
 

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With all the reading I've done on this sight & any where else I can find information on the MME I need educating on an issue.

Am I to understand that all the hardware, radars, camera's, etc WILL be installed for complete self driving mode with limited capability initially. Then full self driving software over the air upgrade released ETA sometime 3rd qtr 2021 & cost to yet to be determined for the software upgrade.

Do I have that about right??
That is correct.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
No, this isn't quite right. The 2021 Mustang Mach-E doesn't support "complete self driving" and will not ever receive an update for that.

So what WILL it have?

All models get Ford Co-Pilot360 2.0 and Ford Co-Pilot360 Assist 2.0. These are capabilities referred to as advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS). On Mustang Mach-E, this includes:
  • Auto high beams
  • BLIS (blind spot information system) with cross-traffic alert
  • Lane-keeping system with lane-keeping aid, lane-keeping alert, road edge detection, blind spot assist, and driver alert
  • Post-collision braking
  • Pre-collision assist with automatic emergency braking (AEB), pedestrian detection, and forward collision warning with dynamic brake support
  • Rear view camera
  • Reverse brake assist
  • Reverse sensing system
  • Forward sensing system
  • Intelligent adaptive cruise control with stop-and-go, lane centering, and speed sign recognition
  • Evasive steering assist
  • Intersection assist
  • Voice-activated touchscreen navigation system w/ three years of service, EV trip planner, live traffic, and predictive destinations and route guidance
The extra hardware you may be thinking of is the Ford Co-Pilot360 Active 2.0 Prep Package. This is included as standard on Premium, California Route 1, and First Edition. For the Select, you need to order the car with the Comfort/Technology Package to get this hardware. Cars equipped with the prep package get these additional ADAS functions:
  • Active Drive Assist Prep Kit
  • Active Park Assist 2.0
  • 360-degree camera with split-view display and front washer
The Active Drive Assist (ADA) prep kit adds additional radars and a camera based driver monitoring system (DMS). So then if you have ADA kit, then Ford is estimating that an optional for-fee update will be available late next year which enhances the Intelligent Adaptive Cruise Control by adding support for hands-free driving in so called "Hands-Free Zones" (over 100,000 miles of North American divided highways).

Ford is saying that they've got a lot of other update plans in the works, but they haven't shared any specifics on what those might be. However, we can safely bet that autonomous driving will not be one of those updates.
Thanks for the info ... I'm looking at the Premium Mach e ... I believe there is certainly enough excitement including myself. But I really NEED to do a "Button Smash" & kick the tires ... tactile that way. That & I would really regret spending $55k for a car unseen & have buyer's remorse. I did see "the Making of the Mach e" some where else on this sight ... and it's made me more excited to see it ... but I hate buyers remorse with that kinda money.

I guess another 4-5 months before I can test drive one ... oh well ,,. it's not like a lot is going on during the Rona lockdown.

thanks again
 

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No, this isn't quite right. The 2021 Mustang Mach-E doesn't support "complete self driving" and will not ever receive an update for that.

So what WILL it have?

All models get Ford Co-Pilot360 2.0 and Ford Co-Pilot360 Assist 2.0. These are capabilities referred to as advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS). On Mustang Mach-E, this includes:
  • Auto high beams
  • BLIS (blind spot information system) with cross-traffic alert
  • Lane-keeping system with lane-keeping aid, lane-keeping alert, road edge detection, blind spot assist, and driver alert
  • Post-collision braking
  • Pre-collision assist with automatic emergency braking (AEB), pedestrian detection, and forward collision warning with dynamic brake support
  • Rear view camera
  • Reverse brake assist
  • Reverse sensing system
  • Forward sensing system
  • Intelligent adaptive cruise control with stop-and-go, lane centering, and speed sign recognition
  • Evasive steering assist
  • Intersection assist
  • Voice-activated touchscreen navigation system w/ three years of service, EV trip planner, live traffic, and predictive destinations and route guidance
Interesting: all of this is already on my 2018 Ford Edge Sport except for:
  • Intersection assist
  • Voice -activatedtouchscreen
 

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Interesting: all of this is already on my 2018 Ford Edge Sport except for:
  • Intersection assist
  • Voice -activatedtouchscreen
The ONLY item from the list that is also on my current vehicle: rear view camera. I'll be really happy to have the extra safety features (like AEB and DMS).
 

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Discussion Starter #12
"Super Cruise" sounds like a catch phrase out of the 50's or 60's auto manufacturers ... or something Dr. Evil would say ... isn't that right Mr. Biggles?😂😂

Never a fan of GM aka Government Motors designs or quality ... Ford lost me 20 yrs ago when they started to make the interior of the Mustang cheap looking & things broke or recalled on a regular basis. I've had either a Toyota / Lexus or a Acura since then. I am really hoping that this is the big turn around that Ford needs for a turn around on quality & innovation ... my fingers are cross ladies & gentlemen.
 

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"Super Cruise" sounds like a catch phrase out of the 50's or 60's auto manufacturers ... or something Dr. Evil would say ... isn't that right Mr. Biggles?😂😂

Never a fan of GM aka Government Motors designs or quality ... Ford lost me 20 yrs ago when they started to make the interior of the Mustang cheap looking & things broke or recalled on a regular basis. I've had either a Toyota / Lexus or a Acura since then. I am really hoping that this is the big turn around that Ford needs for a turn around on quality & innovation ... my fingers are cross ladies & gentlemen.
This will be our first car from an American car company in 20 years. I still remember how everything starting breaking on the Taurus after about 70K miles. A Toyota hasn't even gotten warmed up by then.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
This will be our first car from an American car company in 20 years. I still remember how everything starting breaking on the Taurus after about 70K miles. A Toyota hasn't even gotten warmed up by then.
My Navy buddy just gave his son a Toyota 2006 RAV4 with 425,000 miles on it. I have a Lexus with 140,000 & the only thing we've really done is oil, brakes, tires. My last Ford was a 1990 fully loaded T-bird. Your right, simple plastic parts on the dash started to break after 60,000 & my fuel pump gave me nothing but trouble with 55,000 miles on it. It was cut short when a 18 yr old drunk driver blew thru a stop sign & he totaled no only my T-bird but his dad's brand new Ford F-150 4x4.

This Mach e Mustang is new from the ground up ... the design team was created in the methodology of a silicon valley start up. It appears to be off to a great start when you can convince Mr Ford to take the Pony Tag & put it on a 4 door electric SUV / crossover.
 

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This will be our first car from an American car company in 20 years. I still remember how everything starting breaking on the Taurus after about 70K miles. A Toyota hasn't even gotten warmed up by then.
The Escort did it for me, back in the 1980s. I spent so much time in the garage...man that was frustrating. Never thought I'd be considering a Ford- or a North American car - ever again. But electric changes things, and the SparK EV I'm driving now is the best vehicle I've ever owned: Clean, silent, a hoot to drive and a heck of an urban car. And it's just a 'compliance car', so I'm really looking forward to the MME. With Tesla's lineup, the Bolt and now the MME, American cars are making a comeback.
 

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My take on reliability of automobiles.... important but not really a deal maker/breaker for me.

American cars were once awful for quite some time but for the last ~10-15 years or longer even, quality really hasn't been enough of a detractor for me. During this time, We've driven: An Audi A6, BMW X3, Nissan Pathfinder, VW Passat, Cadillac SRX, Chevrolet Tahoe, Lincoln MKX, Subaru Outback, Dodge Durango, Honda Pilot, Mazda MPV. Also drove an elderly parents Mercedes (E class) quite often. The Audi A6 and Linoln MKX were by far the worst quality experiences. The Honda Pilot is by far the worst driving experience (can't understand why anyone would actually purchase this vehicle but they're very popular around my parts so I'm the outlier).

IMO most cars are pretty darned reliable these days so I choose based on the driving experience. To me a car that I enjoy driving that's in the shop 1~2 days more out of the year sucks a couple of days a year. A car that I don't enjoy driving sucks every day of the year.

Personally, I prefer the driving dynamics of rear wheel drive cars, or if AWD, the rear biased platforms. Almost every Honda or Toyota product is FWD or front biased AWD and I just don't enjoy driving them (Lincoln MKX was similar... and the reliability sucked as well).

The German cars were enjoyable to drive but bills for regular maintenance and even minor issues were/are outrageous... and none of them were as reliable as our American cars save the MKX.
 

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This Mach e Mustang is new from the ground up ... the design team was created in the methodology of a silicon valley start up. It appears to be off to a great start when you can convince Mr Ford to take the Pony Tag & put it on a 4 door electric SUV / crossover.
Yes, part of why I'm getting the Mach E is my hope that they put the “soul” of a Mustang in this car. Ron Heiser, chief engineer on the team said in an interview that the Mustang handling team that tunes the Mustang ICE cars did the tuning on the Mach E on Ford's simulator in Charlotte, NC. The simulator lets them change the parameters that effect handling like stiffness of bushings, tire compound etc BEFORE they do the final track tuning. So since I don't get to drive the car before I ordered, I'm hoping the team got it right. I really do not like driving cars that do not provide good feedback response to the driver.
 

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For the past 12 years I have been driving BMW 5 series (6 cylinder) and E Class Mercedes, also 6 cylinders. Before that two MDX's along with several Porsche Boxsters and the Ford Edge Sport - 2 of them for my wife.

I only lease for less than the warranty period (3 years) so repairs are not a concern, but certainly would be for anyone who keeps a German car out of warranty. I would say a very loud "OUCH!" as to the costs.

I am used to a certain level of quality, quite and refinement of drive. It will be interesting to see how the MachE stacks up.

Price wise the BMW were in the low to mid $60,000 and the Mercedes in the high $60,000 and my present E450 $72,000. I will keep the price differential in mind when I test drive the MachE. But seriously, at $60,800 for my First Edition, I would not expect a significant drop off in quality and/or ride - road noise isolation or wind noise and fit and finish.

Price wise the MachE is not a Ford Fusion. It is priced like a luxury car and hopefully the quality will not disappoint.

I will not fall into the Tesla group that has drunk the "cool aid" and continues to make excuses, i.e., "teething pains" for cars that cost north of $70,000 Model S and X and almost $50,000 model Y.

At the prices of both the Tesla and MachE we should expect, change that, demand a well built quality automobile.

Just my $.02!


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For the past 12 years I have been driving BMW 5 series (6 cylinder) and E Class Mercedes, also 6 cylinders. Before that two MDX's along with several Porsche Boxsters and the Ford Edge Sport - 2 of them for my wife.

I only lease for less than the warranty period (3 years) so repairs are not a concern, but certainly would be for anyone who keeps a German car out of warranty. I would say a very loud "OUCH!" as to the costs.

I am used to a certain level of quality, quite and refinement of drive. It will be interesting to see how the MachE stacks up.

Price wise the BMW were in the low to mid $60,000 and the Mercedes in the high $60,000 and my present E450 $72,000. I will keep the price differential in mind when I test drive the MachE. But seriously, at $60,800 for my First Edition, I would not expect a significant drop off in quality and/or ride - road noise isolation or wind noise and fit and finish.

Price wise the MachE is not a Ford Fusion. It is priced like a luxury car and hopefully the quality will not disappoint.

I will not fall into the Tesla group that has drunk the "cool aid" and continues to make excuses, i.e., "teething pains" for cars that cost north of $70,000 Model S and X and almost $50,000 model Y.

At the prices of both the Tesla and MachE we should expect, change that, demand a well built quality automobile.

Just my $.02!


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Since the battery cost is substantial, EVs need to sacrifice something: For Teslas it's luxury and NVH. German builders spent substantial effort on NVH (noise vibration and harshness) to provide a quiet ride. EVs do well at low speed by default, but on the highway wind and tire noise take over and the vehicle NVH effort shows. Teslas are noisier at highway speeds than their price competitors, and some reviewers have complained about the lack of luxury features. Their quality issues are well documented, and I expect Ford won't have nearly as many. I'm curious to see how MME fares with respect to NVH.
 

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Since the battery cost is substantial, EVs need to sacrifice something: For Teslas it's luxury and NVH. German builders spent substantial effort on NVH (noise vibration and harshness) to provide a quiet ride. EVs do well at low speed by default, but on the highway wind and tire noise take over and the vehicle NVH effort shows. Teslas are noisier at highway speeds than their price competitors, and some reviewers have complained about the lack of luxury features. Their quality issues are well documented, and I expect Ford won't have nearly as many. I'm curious to see how MME fares with respect to NVH.

On long trips, I find the lack of wind and road noise on my new Mercedes, makes the trip far less stressful and relaxing. You really do not know how much more tired and tense you are in a noisy car, until you have been in a quiet car.

Similar to putting on noise canceling headphones on an airplane ride.

On a trip, constant noise is very, very tiring - one of the reasons I was never happy with my Porsche 911. The engine noise in the 911 is fun and exciting on short trips, but if the trip is over 2 hours, you are exhausted - and forget about ever using the radio!



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