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I don't even have Autopilot on my car because the $3k didn't seem like a good enough value. That's insane to go $7-10k (they've kept raising it) in addition to the $3k for Autopilot.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Many Tesla owners asking if the FSD they purchased can follow them if they upgrade. So if they bought a M3 last year and purchased FSD, if they want to upgrade to a MY or Model S, do they have to pay for FSD again when they actually never got to use it?
 

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Many Tesla owners asking if the FSD they purchased can follow them if they upgrade. So if they bought a M3 last year and purchased FSD, if they want to upgrade to a MY or Model S, do they have to pay for FSD again when they actually never got to use it?
It will be interesting to hear the answer to that.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm beginning to think a subscription model is more desirable. The key is pricing.... some scenarios...

Around town - Thinking the "per ride" cost needs to be way less than Uber, Doordash...
  • I drive my car to dinner, have a couple of drinks, then tell it drive me home.
  • Tell my car to go drive the kids back/forth to their activities.
  • Tell it to go pick up the grandparents for dinner, then drive them back home afterwards.
  • Tell the car to get the curveside pickup at a local store/restaurant.
For longer trips... need a lower cost per mile/per day arrangement.
  • Gets me to my destination on long trips while I'm working remotely in the car.
  • Get in the car late at night, sleep in it while it drives me to my destination.
 

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I'm beginning to think a subscription model is more desirable. The key is pricing.... some scenarios...

Around town - Thinking the "per ride" cost needs to be way less than Uber, Doordash...
  • I drive my car to dinner, have a couple of drinks, then tell it drive me home.
  • Tell my car to go drive the kids back/forth to their activities.
  • Tell it to go pick up the grandparents for dinner, then drive them back home afterwards.
  • Tell the car to get the curveside pickup at a local store/restaurant.
For longer trips... need a lower cost per mile/per day arrangement.
  • Gets me to my destination on long trips while I'm working remotely in the car.
  • Get in the car late at night, sleep in it while it drives me to my destination.
Tesla FSD is nowhere near Level 4 or 5 certification. Therefore, it cannot perform any of your scenarios listed.

Its a cool toy, but not $10,000 worth. If i have to pay attention, I might as well drive myself. The ‘video game’ novelty wears off quickly. I would never use it.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Tesla FSD is nowhere near Level 4 or 5 certification. Therefore, it cannot perform any of your scenarios listed.

Its a cool toy, but not $10,000 worth. If i have to pay attention, I might as well drive myself. The ‘video game’ novelty wears off quickly. I would never use it.
Hey Elon still has a couple of months to make good on his promise for a fleet of self driving taxis that make you money.
 

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Hey Elon still has a couple of months to make good on his promise for a fleet of self driving taxis that make you money.
Sorry Everyone, going to rant a bit:

First, who is going to get the car charged back up and cleaned for my use? The car will never be in a ready-state to drive it.

Second, I can’t just get up and go spontaneously. Who knows where the car is, and how long it will be before it gets back. And then I have to take care of the things from the first point above. So why bother having a personal vehicle at all?

Lastly, If someone uses a car so infrequently, why buy a Telsa with this software knowing you will need to sign up for this rip-off idea in the first place to afford it? Just save yourself the car payment, the insurance, storage, maintenance and the electricity. Use other means of transportation, like Uber, Lyft, car services, public svcs, etc. Waymo, Argo, Cruise and others are out there today with robopilot-programs for the near future. Tesla would just be another one in the crowd. Let Elon worry about the all the expenses of owning and maintaining a fleet of cars.

My apologies I feel so strongly about this. You buy/lease car, pay once. Buy ridiculously priced software, pay a second time. That software is so expensive that you need to subsidize owning it by letting him make money off you a THIRD time with this robotaxi scheme?

Not interested in any of that either.

Mi dun
 

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You don't have to buy the car or the software, just buy your Mac-E and be done with it.

Frankly the Beta looks amazing...
 

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All of the robo taxi stuff is a bunch of hot air and BS right now. No way anytime soon are these cars going to be at level 4. If anyone is buying the car thinking they will recoup their $10K, well, you are either a blind Stan, or extremely gullible. I do believe it WILL get there someday, but probably not even with the current tech in a Tesla -which is all cameras.
 

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My issue is not with the Tesla tech or the car.

its the price of the software thats outrageous. And the robo-taxi plan, which I feel exploits owners, i have the issues with.

If Ford were to try to charge some crazy price for the upcoming ADAS upgrade, or adopt the same robo-taxi model in 3 years when MobileEye is integrated with Argo tech, I will rant at them as well.

Consumers have the power. If they protest and no one buys Tesla FSD at the $10k price tag, then price will come down. It is that simple. Tesla will still continue to develop it, even if consumers are only willing to pay as little as $3,000 for the FSD system.
 

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Cameras and radar. BTW, what sensors do you use to drive? Watch the videos and learn...
My bad. Forgot the radar. I use my eyes and ears. Which by the way are not outside the car in the elements. Just buy a Tesla and be done with it. I hear the beta looks amazing . . .
 

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As much as I like my Tesla, I don't even have basic Autopilot because I didn't think Adaptive Cruise was worth the price (or really necessary), so I certainly am not going to pay for "FSD" either. I guess I just enjoy driving myself too much. I'm on the fence if I'd ever buy Ford's "Hands Free" update either.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
As much as I like my Tesla, I don't even have basic Autopilot because I didn't think Adaptive Cruise was worth the price (or really necessary), so I certainly am not going to pay for "FSD" either. I guess I just enjoy driving myself too much. I'm on the fence if I'd ever buy Ford's "Hands Free" update either.
I too enjoy driving but not all the time... I really want L4 autonomous driving sooner than later. That said, Tesla's crowd funded, kickstarter approach where their customers pay now for delivery later (who knows when?) is not the way to do this. Someone getting killed or hurt seriously is going to set this back.

Also... knowing that it's a beta product. With whom lies the liability? Anyone know what happened in previous cases?
I doubt there would so many people eager for the beta if they were liable for anything bad that happens. For damages in civil court or the nightmare scenario of negligent manslaughter in criminal court.
 

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My issue is not with the Tesla tech or the car.

its the price of the software thats outrageous. And the robo-taxi plan, which I feel exploits owners, i have the issues with.

If Ford were to try to charge some crazy price for the upcoming ADAS upgrade, or adopt the same robo-taxi model in 3 years when MobileEye is integrated with Argo tech, I will rant at them as well.

Consumers have the power. If they protest and no one buys Tesla FSD at the $10k price tag, then price will come down. It is that simple. Tesla will still continue to develop it, even if consumers are only willing to pay as little as $3,000 for the FSD system.
There is NOTHING in Tesla's pricing of FSD or the "robo-taxi" customer income idea that is not completely voluntary, PERIOD! The FSD rewrite is a spectacular preview of level 5 capability, implemented as a hands-on-wheel level 2 test until its reliability is proven to regulators. The $10,000 price is peanuts compared to the Waymo level 4/5 program now authorized in Phoenix with multi-hundred thousand dollar hardware. Teslas have the hardware built in all of the cars they are delivering today.

You are naive to think that other manufacturers are going to give away this kind of technology. There will be competition in pricing, but I doubt that it will be on the "cheap" level. Companies that develop technology are doing it for profit.
 

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There is NOTHING in Tesla's pricing of FSD or the "robo-taxi" customer income idea that is not completely voluntary, PERIOD! The FSD rewrite is a spectacular preview of level 5 capability, implemented as a hands-on-wheel level 2 test until its reliability is proven to regulators. The $10,000 price is peanuts compared to the Waymo level 4/5 program now authorized in Phoenix with multi-hundred thousand dollar hardware. Teslas have the hardware built in all of the cars they are delivering today.

You are naive to think that other manufacturers are going to give away this kind of technology. There will be competition in pricing, but I doubt that it will be on the "cheap" level. Companies that develop technology are doing it for profit.
Tesla is a mature, 17 year-old profitable company, so it doesn’t need to crowd-source fund anything anymore. It is not a start-up, it is one of the most valuable companies in the world. As long as people keep prescribing that they are still a start-up, Tesla will keep taking advantage as long as they can.

The technology, therefore, will never be in the hands of the average American. It will be relegated to the rich, who think $10,000 is ‘peanuts’. (Elon said he could see charging $100k for L4/5 full self driving )

For over one-hundred million adult Americans that cant even afford the typical EV price tag, tacking on another $10k (or more) is just not feasible. So the only way they could access this technology in the future would be to sign-up for the ‘voluntary’ robo-program. Thereby, implicitly forced.

Again, its not the tech, its the business model. It is out-of-touch with economic reality. I will not entertain any company who goes Elon’s price-model route, neither will 3/4 of the American Consumers (whose median annual is only $43k). It’s doomed to fail if the price keeps increasing.
 
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