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I drive a Leaf, and I'd love to order a Mach E. I just can't get over why the per KWH efficiency is so much lower than other cars, especially the model Y that it seems to compete with. Almost identical sizes and performance stats, but the Ford needs a much larger battery to get there.
 

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I'd wait until it gets actually rated. Right now it's all estimates and they are likely being conservative in order to make sure they hit at or above what they are announcing.
 

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I wonder the same thing. My guess is that it is primarily because Tesla's battery/motor technology is simply more advanced technology. A Ford engineer mentioned they were easily 5 years ahead of the industry in battery tech. They have invested a lot of money into powertrain research and have their own factories making custom designed batteries, while Ford buys batteries from another company, LG Chem. This is also why Tesla supports faster charging speeds; their batteries are just built better.

There are likely other factors too. Tesla's design is probably more aero-dynamic; some of the design elements that make the Ford look so good probably has some negative impact with wind drag. EV is more sensitive to aerodynamics than gas powered cars and it has a bigger impact on efficiency (a reason why most EVs are small, low to the ground, ugly cars).

Finally, it could be that they actually have greater range and are just being conservative with their estimate or haven't optimized the rest of the powertrain completely yet. Ford might be concerned with over-promising or being accused of accidental false advertising. Real world range can very quite a bit on a variety of factors such as weather, road elevations, aggressive driving, etc. By under promising and over delivering, you can avoid backlash and make happy customers.
 

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I drive a Leaf, and I'd love to order a Mach E. I just can't get over why the per KWH efficiency is so much lower than other cars, especially the model Y that it seems to compete with. Almost identical sizes and performance stats, but the Ford needs a much larger battery to get there.
I'm referencing data from ev-database.uk here (and assuming its accurate)
Nissan leaf e+ is 56 kwh usable battery and has WLTP range 239miles =4.2m /kwh
Mustang Mach E SR RWD is 70kwh with WLTP 280miles = 4m/kwh
so Nissan has slight 5% edge on effiicency . So concluding so much lower when comparing Mach E with Leaf seems like an exaggeration . The other thing to rememebr the Mach E is bigger car (with almost 20% extra weight) . In addition the Mach E is has more power ....260hp compare to 215 for leaf.
So in most area the Mach E appears near equivalent or somewhat better than the leaf. The tech especially appears superior.. Given the leaf and Mach E are similar price - at least in UK I know which one I go for. By comparison model Y (I am projecting based on model 3 Uk premium starter price) to be 10-15% more expensive than Mach E
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks. I wasn't comparing my leaf, which I bought new in 2014, to the mach e. I was comparing the Mach E to the model Y. But the numbers I had seen for the Tesla were around 4.7, and around 3.4 for a comparable Mach E. Very different than yours. I'll double check them. I fully understand being conservative, but range is still a major selling point and with a much bigger pack I think they would have jumped on the advantage it offered if they could. I get the effect of size, aerodynamics, battery chemistry, etc. I do think that LG Chem provides batteries for many manufacturers, and is not too far behind Tesla in development. The cars are almost identical in size, which makes me wonder about motor efficiency. I know that there has been a lot of design progress in that field recently.
 

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why the per KWH efficiency is so much lower
We have NO idea what the expected mi/kwhr factor will be. If you simply take the targeted 230 mile range and divide by 75.7 kwhr size of the standard battery you get a very low rating of 3.03 mi/kwhr. However, that accounts for zero battery buffer. If ford is really conservative with a 20% buffer, then the targeted rate is 3.8. A more realistic 12% or 15% gives a rate of 3.5 - 3.6. Assuming the 230 mile range is a sandbagged value, the rate gets even better. Until we actually know real details from actual testing, there is no point in drawing hard conclusions.

In the words of aaron rogers: "R E L A X"
 

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I drive a Leaf, and I'd love to order a Mach E. I just can't get over why the per KWH efficiency is so much lower than other cars, especially the model Y that it seems to compete with. Almost identical sizes and performance stats, but the Ford needs a much larger battery to get there.
Tesla has a smaller battery reserve than other companies. This enhances the "numbers" you are referring to. Real World results can be significantly different. This is a Ford CMax Energi with over 5 miles per KW range. Interesting to see something better than what Tesla posts.
713
 

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You will not see a lot of real world differences in range between the Mach-E and the Model Y.
The Model Y of course will have a slight advantage in that it is smaller, lighter and butt ugly.

This range advantage though will be dwarfed by the two Laws of EV driving.
Law 1 --- Speed kills range.
I have a 2019 Leaf SL+ (62KWH Batt) and if I tool around the area on Secondary Roads at 45 – 50 mph
I can easily reach 300 mile range in warm temps of 70F or more.
When I get on I-90 and let it fly at 85mph --- I’ll be coasting up to the charger at 0% at 150 miles --- about half the other scenario.

Law 2 --- Cold kills range
This Leaf has a Heat Pump and it is very efficient with temps in the 20F to 50F area.
When it’s 0F like it is here this morning --- it can’t pump many BTU’s out of 0F air
and it falls back on straight resistance heating, just like the Model Y and Mach-E have.
Now range will take a huge hit, far more than any small published range differences between these Models.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This is all stuff I know. Remember, I've been driving a leaf since 2014. But equivalent models of the Mustang and the Y have very similar range estimates with very different sized battery packs. Either the Mustang is much heavier, or the battery chemistry is seriously inferior. I'll probably buy one anyway but I am curious. From the responses here I can see that no one really knows yet.
 

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Either the Mustang is much heavier, or the battery chemistry is seriously inferior.---Tesla is known to "wall-off" a very small portion of their battery pack while other companies used like 20%. This difference will tilt the "numbers" much more positive for Tesla. Reading real world results from owners produces different statistics.
 

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You will not see a lot of real world differences in range between the Mach-E and the Model Y.
The Model Y of course will have a slight advantage in that it is smaller, lighter and butt ugly.

This range advantage though will be dwarfed by the two Laws of EV driving.
Law 1 --- Speed kills range.
I have a 2019 Leaf SL+ (62KWH Batt) and if I tool around the area on Secondary Roads at 45 – 50 mph
I can easily reach 300 mile range in warm temps of 70F or more.
When I get on I-90 and let it fly at 85mph --- I’ll be coasting up to the charger at 0% at 150 miles --- about half the other scenario.

Law 2 --- Cold kills range
This Leaf has a Heat Pump and it is very efficient with temps in the 20F to 50F area.
When it’s 0F like it is here this morning --- it can’t pump many BTU’s out of 0F air
and it falls back on straight resistance heating, just like the Model Y and Mach-E have.
Now range will take a huge hit, far more than any small published range differences between these Models.
The cold temp issues can be improved by “pre-conditioning” the battery and cabin before you leave (app will allow you to do that). Think of it like a remote starter. Basically, it heats itself up while it is still on the charger so it is not wasting the battery power and range. The biggest issue is going from very low temps to normal temp. Once there, it is not as bad maintaining the current temperature. Big advantage of EVs is that you can “run” them in a closed garage since they have no emissions. No reason not to prep the car before you leave in the morning.

Yes, EVs are great at low speeds and stop and go conditions and not so good at high speed. Gas engines are the opposite being better at high speeds and worse at low speeds. Sadly, the times when you need your full range is when you will be driving for hours down a highway. That is where hybrids shine since they can use the battery at low speeds and the gas engine at high speeds.
 

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Ford estimates for ER/RWD in Europe is 370 miles using the WLTP standards.
The same config using EPA standards is estimated at 300 miles. Both numbers are said to be conservative awaiting official review of the production vehicles.
Ford also is aiming to ensure 70% minimum battery capacity at the end of 8 years /100,000 miles (their warranty numbers they want to meet so they dont have to refresh the battery for free).
Plus, every BEV manufacturer “wall-off” reserves, because if you continually drain the pack fully, you drastically reduce its lifespan.
All this said, The MME platform efficiency may well just surprise us.
 

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“Ford has just presented its Euro Spec Mach-E in in London at the Ford ‘Go Electric’ Experience.
When equipped with the extended-range battery and rear-wheel drive, the Mustang Mach-E has a targeted range of up to 600 km (370+ miles) in the WLTP cycle.
The battery supports fast charging, with 10 minutes of 150 kW charging at an IONITY station giving it a driving range of up to 93 km (57 miles).”
**
The usual conversion ratio for BEV vehicles from EPA to WLTP is 1.12.

So 370/1.12 = 330 Miles EPA, so could be considerably higher than initial info.
 
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