[JTK44]

Someone please add clarity to this:

If the AWD extended range battery Mach-E has a range of 270 miles, is this from 100% charge to 0% charge or is it from 80% charge down to 20% remaining? If the former, is the real range 162 miles (60% x 270)?

I am not sure, but I believe the range is with the buffer.

I had read that the buffer, low and high end combined, is closer to 10/15% and not 40%.

One of the ways that Tesla keeps increasing the range of existing cars is through OTA updates that modify the buffer. I think their total buffer is now around 5 to 8%.

Others I am sure will post more accurate information.

.

 

[JTK44]

as for range anxiety, I’m going to throw some food for thought out there. If I had a Ford Edge with a 18.5 gallon gas tank, it would go for 425 miles if I somehow managed to match the EPA combined 23 MPG rating. I never go to empty. So assuming I leave at least a 1/4 tank before refueling, my theoretical range would be 319 miles. I also only pay cash for gas, so i usually add $20 gas at a time (10 gallons at my current gas prices). So right now my range between refueling is actually 230 miles (55% capacity). This doesn’t take into consideration environmental impacts on MPG.

In my book when it comes to refueling, the only real difference between BEV vehicles with a decent range and an ICE vehicle is the ‘refueling’ speed.

I do own a Ford Edge:

• I use a credit card and fill up. 15 gallons, at 23 mpg, will give me an additional range of 345 miles. The fill up will take 5 minutes. Under best of circumstances 5 minutes at super charger will give you at most 35 miles or range.
• Unless I am on the Northway in the Adirondacks there is a gas station ever 20 to 30 miles. In an EV it may be every 50 miles and not every charging station is a supercharger.
• The 23 mpg on the open road in a Ford Edge is realistic whether in the winter or the summer. At 70/75 mph I always get more than 23 mpg or better.
• The range of MME 270 in reality is the maximum range. In the real world at speed in the winter expect that range to drop to under 200 miles. In the summer with AC on expect that range to drop to 230 miles

I see both time of recharging and range as issues - not just the time it takes to charge.

I can give you a very specific example:

From my home to Ludlow Vermont is 254 miles - I make the trip 10 to 12 times a year for skiing and have been doing so for over 20 years so I know the mileage.

I fill up my Mercedes, 21 gallons and I get 31 mpg at 70 miles per hour. My first stop is at the rest stop in Middletown CT for five minutes, 100 miles 1 1/2 hours. My second stop is the rest stop at Vermont border, another 105 miles, 1 1/2 hours for 5 minutes. I arrive in Ludlow with more than a half a tank of gas and it has taken me 4 hours and 15/20 minutes.

Now I make the same trip with the MME:

• I make the same stop at Middletown.
• I make a second stop at Springfield Mass 146 miles. Because it is winter I have used 80% of the charge. I must now fully charge the battery, 60 minutes.
• I now must stop again at Brattelboro, VT. 50 miles to once again fully charge the battery, as there are no super charging stations between Brattleboro, VT and Ludow, VT. That 50 miles has used slightly less than 1/3 of the battery. The charge will take another 20 minutes.

I could reverse and only stop for 20 minutes in Springfield, but then I would to stop for 60 minutes in Brattleboro.

Either way using the MME I have turned a 4 hour 15/20 minute trip in an Ice to a 6 hour trip in the MME.

This is for only a 250 mile trip. When the trip is longer, time spent recharging will be greater.

That is why I am keeping my Ford Edge for long trips. The MME is just not practical.

BTW, with the Model Y and the 50 miles of extra range, I could make it to Brattleboro, 200 miles. I would only need 1/3 charge, 20 minutes as Tesla does have charging stations in Ludlow - 4 in fact. They are located at the ski slope and you can charge your car while you are skiing!

So the same trip with a Model Y would be 1 hour shorter than the MME.



.

 

[JTK44]

Personally, for long trips (over 500 miles), we can use my wife’s car. Its not that frequent we do, though.

As a range example, I mapped out from Freeport, LI (picked because of distance) to Ludlow, VT, 253 miles on ABRP. If I leave with 100% charge it says no stops. I would make at least one stop somewhere on the route and grab a 30 minute charge to be safe.

This is only good if there is destination charging in Ludlow.

And this is all speculation anyway. we don’t know what the EPA and real-world test numbers are yet.

Again the 270 miles is the maximum range for the FE - LR AWD: It is calculated in both city and highway. The city driving is always higher because of brake regeneration.

At speeds (70 to 75 mph) the 270 drops to 240, without brake regeneration another 20 to 220 and with heat on in the winter to under 200 to 180.

That 180 is once again the maximum and with a 20 mile reserve your are down to 160.

Without "nit picking" Google maps shows the distance from Freeport LI to Ludlow to be 258 miles and 250 from my home. My ski house is in the center of town which accounts for the extra 4 miles.

.

 

[JTK44]

My point is that 2 hours of charge stops seems a bt extreme. But all calculations we do in these forums are SWAGs anyway.

I agree.

See my post #8 where I said:

"Either way using the MME I have turned a 4 hour 15/20 minute trip in an Ice to a 6 hour trip in the MME."
​

I then went on to say that the same trip with a Model Y would be much shorter because of the:

• 50 miles additional range​
• Charging stations in Ludlow​

"BTW, with the Model Y and the 50 miles of extra range, I could make it to Brattleboro, 200 miles. I would only need 1/3 charge, 20 minutes as Tesla does have charging stations in Ludlow - 4 in fact. They are located at the ski slope and you can charge your car while you are skiing!

So the same trip with a Model Y would be 1 hour shorter than the MME. "

.


​

 

[JTK44]

What do you mean by


Why no brake regeneration?

In city traffic there is stop and go: this is brake regeneration which charges the battery.

On long distance trips the brakes are used, in miles driven, far less than in the city.

That is why on EV's the city range is always higher than the highway range.

And do not forget, like EPA mpg on an ICE, the range on an EV is calculated at 50 mph. As you go faster both the mpg on an ICE and the range on an EV go down.

The decrease in range on the highway is a combination of:

• Lack of regenerative braking
• speed

Hope this clarifies.

.

 

[JTK44]

Gotcha. However, I think the 70 mph highway reduction generally includes the limited regeneration. We'll know more when we start real world testing.

I have gone to the Tesla "stores". They have a big white board where you can put in different parameters and see how that effects range:

When you use that board you find the following:

• Highway range is less than stop and go
• Highway range decreases with speed
• Highway range decreases dramatically as it gets colder

When I originally did this the Model S range was slightly below a 300 mile range - similar to the expected range of the MME.

I was shocked to see how speed and cold in the winter affected the Model S range: I was also shocked at the time to recharge. The lack of range in the winter and the charging times are the main reasons I did not get the Model S. Remember 4 years ago the Tesla charging infrastructure is not what it is today.

In fact the present MME charging infrastructure is quite similar to where Tesla was 4 years ago. All the problems the Model S had driving long distances in the winter 4 years ago are similar to what the MME faces today.

That is why I posted that for long trips I intend to use my wife's Ford Edge Sport!

 

[JTK44]

I would maybe make that trip as an experiment, but otherwise in winter, in rural areas, ICE has no alternatives.
Every tool is good for certain job. EVs excel in city driving.

Interesting that you wrote thet "EVs excel in city driving".

In Manhattan, I live on Long Island, the means of transportation is public not private. Only a small proportion of NY City residents own a car and those that do do not usually use them on a daily basis preferring to take once again public transportation. They are used for trips, which we have concluded is not their strength.

Clearly NY is somewhat unique and most of the country does rely on autos for their transportation.

I see no purpose in making the trip to Vermont as "an experiment". Last winter it was 15 degrees when I went into gym. Outside there was a Tesla charging. When I came out the temp had dropped to 5 and it was a full blown blizzard. I got into my ICE, turned it over waited 30 seconds, turned on heater and drove away.

The Tesla was buried in snow still charging. I guess the owner was inside waiting and checking his app to see how much charge he had and how much longer he had to wait before he could leave. By then the roads would have been pretty close to impassable.

Thanks but no thanks.

.